somebody mentioned that some people rate before airing, and it's only for their information. Maybe it would be a solution to add another "type" or rating, where one can decide if it's personal or public, in case of choosing public, there might be warning that it is for finished dramas/movies. I have no idea if that would decrease the number of false ratings...
I personally don't think down voting is enough to deal with fake and premature reviews. That option just seems a bit too reactionary to me. I'd rather see making it totally impossible to review a drama (movie) before or during its airtime.
Episode rating - I'm not sure why it's so imperative that we have episode votes. Rating shouldn't be possible unless the entire drama has aired, in my personal opinion. And if only a year is available, voting / reviewing should be frozen until a full date becomes known. That should give the MDL staff impetus to find out the full dates when movies/dramas will air. In the meantime, we can leave our comments on the drama/movie page. We have the possibility to review episodes and mention a rating we think it deserves in the process. But I don't think we need an official coded system of voting on episodes. If you choose to not see the entire drama then you shouldn't have the option to vote on its quality or lack thereof. To me if ongoing episode ratings affect the overall weighted average of the drama/movie, then they're just like the premature reviews. They give an unfair advantage or disadvantage to dramas that might not deserve it. I'd rather see all rating and reviewing done AFTER the entire show has aired.
However, if people insist on having episode ratings, how about enabling rating after each episode has aired? Usually we know the date each episode will air, so why not enable voting AFTER each air date? (And freeze rating(reviewing) if only 'year' is available?)
Episode rating - I'm not sure why it's so imperative that we have episode votes. Rating shouldn't be possible unless the entire drama has aired, in my personal opinion. And if only a year is available, voting / reviewing should be frozen until a full date becomes known. That should give the MDL staff impetus to find out the full dates when movies/dramas will air. In the meantime, we can leave our comments on the drama/movie page. We have the possibility to review episodes and mention a rating we think it deserves in the process. But I don't think we need an official coded system of voting on episodes. If you choose to not see the entire drama then you shouldn't have the option to vote on its quality or lack thereof. To me if ongoing episode ratings affect the overall weighted average of the drama/movie, then they're just like the premature reviews. They give an unfair advantage or disadvantage to dramas that might not deserve it. I'd rather see all rating and reviewing done AFTER the entire show has aired.
However, if people insist on having episode ratings, how about enabling rating after each episode has aired? Usually we know the date each episode will air, so why not enable voting AFTER each air date? (And freeze rating(reviewing) if only 'year' is available?)
Pretty, I'm not sure if I understand your post right, but there already is a voting system in place for episodes. Here for example:
http://mydramalist.com/10873-kill-me-heal-me/episo...
Afaik these ratings you can give in the episode guide have nothing to do with the overall rating you give when you finish a drama.
But I agree too that reviewing (or even overall rating) should be locked until the show is completed. And if that was impossible until there's an exact date on the respective drama (or movie) page, maybe that could help with people looking for and submitting the info? Although it might put off users that don't care about submitting stuff for the database or don't know anything about it, but it seems like the least complicated solution so far.
http://mydramalist.com/10873-kill-me-heal-me/episo...
Afaik these ratings you can give in the episode guide have nothing to do with the overall rating you give when you finish a drama.
But I agree too that reviewing (or even overall rating) should be locked until the show is completed. And if that was impossible until there's an exact date on the respective drama (or movie) page, maybe that could help with people looking for and submitting the info? Although it might put off users that don't care about submitting stuff for the database or don't know anything about it, but it seems like the least complicated solution so far.
@rising
1) I was agreeing with the OP who made a suggestion against episode ratings. I think we should eliminate episode ratings, and only rate completed dramas because
2) People are able to rate an episode before it has aired which gives a false advantage to the overall rating of the drama, if I'm understanding this correctly. For eg, if you look at the Kill Me, Heal Me episode guide page, at least one user has already rated episodes that haven't aired yet with a 10, making the overall weighted average higher than it really should be (in this case 8.9). That overall 8.9 rating is misleading because people are submitting episode votes without having seen certain episodes.
1) I was agreeing with the OP who made a suggestion against episode ratings. I think we should eliminate episode ratings, and only rate completed dramas because
2) People are able to rate an episode before it has aired which gives a false advantage to the overall rating of the drama, if I'm understanding this correctly. For eg, if you look at the Kill Me, Heal Me episode guide page, at least one user has already rated episodes that haven't aired yet with a 10, making the overall weighted average higher than it really should be (in this case 8.9). That overall 8.9 rating is misleading because people are submitting episode votes without having seen certain episodes.
^ But would anyone rate individual episodes after the drama has aired? People who watched the drama while it was airing won't go back to give those ratings - for one, would anyone even remember how they particularly felt of each individual episode after they have finished the whole drama? (And keeping up with the airdates would be a lot of work for someone - episodes won't always be shown according to schedule.)
Also, I don't agree with limiting the ratings to completed dramas in general, either. It is, in my opinion, perfectly fine to rate a drama you have dropped (and thus, did not see all the episodes). We are giving the ratings in a really simple numerical scale after all, with everyone's own discretion of interpreting those numbers. Even with just some episodes one can form a rough impression of whether they liked the drama or not. And it's fine to give a number for that impression.
Accordingly, ratings of a currently airing drama will just tell us about the current impressions. The ratings will level themselves when more people make their final decisions - ultimately, no harm done with those early reviews.
Also, I don't agree with limiting the ratings to completed dramas in general, either. It is, in my opinion, perfectly fine to rate a drama you have dropped (and thus, did not see all the episodes). We are giving the ratings in a really simple numerical scale after all, with everyone's own discretion of interpreting those numbers. Even with just some episodes one can form a rough impression of whether they liked the drama or not. And it's fine to give a number for that impression.
Accordingly, ratings of a currently airing drama will just tell us about the current impressions. The ratings will level themselves when more people make their final decisions - ultimately, no harm done with those early reviews.
Loving the discussions here, but just want to clear up one point.
"2) People are able to rate an episode before it has aired which gives a false advantage to the overall rating of the drama, if I'm understanding this correctly. For eg, if you look at the Kill Me, Heal Me episode guide page, at least one user has already rated episodes that haven't aired yet with a 10, making the overall weighted average higher than it really should be (in this case 8.9). That overall 8.9 rating is misleading because people are submitting episode votes without having seen certain episodes."
Episode reviews have nothing to do with overall review scores. They're simply not factored in.
"2) People are able to rate an episode before it has aired which gives a false advantage to the overall rating of the drama, if I'm understanding this correctly. For eg, if you look at the Kill Me, Heal Me episode guide page, at least one user has already rated episodes that haven't aired yet with a 10, making the overall weighted average higher than it really should be (in this case 8.9). That overall 8.9 rating is misleading because people are submitting episode votes without having seen certain episodes."
Episode reviews have nothing to do with overall review scores. They're simply not factored in.
@Fira
I see poor wording of my initial post may have caused some misunderstandings. I've now reworded what I wrote and hopefully it makes more sense.
But just to be clear, I don't mean that people should go back and rate each episode after the whole drama has aired (I don't think that makes much sense). What I'm saying is this:
1) Eliminate episode ratings all together and ONLY rate the completed drama
OR
2) If people don't want to eliminate episode rating totally, only allow the rating of episodes once the episode has aired.
So if ep 1 of Drama A airs on March 1
Viewers can rate the episode 2 - 24 hrs after it aired.
@Skye
I'm a little confused now because if episode ratings are not factored in then where does the 8.9 overall rating for Kill Me, Heal Me comes from?
I see poor wording of my initial post may have caused some misunderstandings. I've now reworded what I wrote and hopefully it makes more sense.
But just to be clear, I don't mean that people should go back and rate each episode after the whole drama has aired (I don't think that makes much sense). What I'm saying is this:
1) Eliminate episode ratings all together and ONLY rate the completed drama
OR
2) If people don't want to eliminate episode rating totally, only allow the rating of episodes once the episode has aired.
So if ep 1 of Drama A airs on March 1
Viewers can rate the episode 2 - 24 hrs after it aired.
@Skye
I'm a little confused now because if episode ratings are not factored in then where does the 8.9 overall rating for Kill Me, Heal Me comes from?
You know when you add a new drama or movie to MDL, you have these LENGHT options:
Number of Episodes - "Do not include any special in the total. If unknown leave blank".
Duration - "The total number of minutes in an average episode. If you are not sure, leave it blank".
Start Date
End Date
For duration and number of episodes it's crystal clear. Why not make it the same for start / end date? You could add there an option called UPCOMING, for those shows that have no release date yet and write a note about this feature (like you explained what they should/shouldn't do about episode count and duration). Something like this: "Start date - Mdy (month day year). If no release date has been set yet, select UPCOMING". And then you insert below a drop down menu called "Upcoming" with these 4 sub-options: upcoming, pre-production, filming and post-production (the "upcoming" sub-option is in case you have no idea if they are still filming or they finished or what, you just know there is no clear release date yet ...). MDL users usually add/edit data about upcoming titles when they read news about it (x,y actors have been cast, they started filming, they wrapped up filming and so on). If someone is really interested about a certain title, I am sure that person would update the status when new info is available. If not there is always the general sub-option upcoming that would still serve its ultimate purpose...
So it could look like this: http://mydramalist.com/profile/GeaV/feeds/LOqljafJ
I think this option could solve a lot of problems in the same time and it's easy to control, as that info has to go through approval staff anyway, it's not like any MDL user can just mess with the start/end dates, right? If the one approving sees that the one submitting the info only added a year, he/she can change it to upcoming before approving...
*On a side note, it has always bothered me that if you browse through movies or dramas and you want to refine your search, when you select the "upcoming" criterion you only get the titles that have a complete release date on MDL. And that is not ok imo. If they only have the year (2015, 2016), they do not show in your search, even though they were already added to MDL, even though there is info available about the upcoming production. The pre-production, filming or post-production status all qualify as upcoming, wouldn't you agree?*
Back to what I was saying before, IF the drama /movie status says UPCOMING, you can then add some settings to block the option of rate/review (editing the status/start date as Upcoming should automatically disable the rate/review buttons, is that a complicated feature to add?) .
You can also block the option people have to select that title as "completed, currently watching, on hold and dropped". I mean as long as the movie is listed on MDL as upcoming (or pre-production , filming, post-production), when an user wants to add that title to his lists/rate/review, the title should automatically be locked for him/her like this:
Status: "plan to watch" -only option available to select, the others are blocked
Your rating: blocked, can't select anything
Share on: available, as he is free to share his plan to watch that upcoming title
Add note: available.
Now this is strictly about the titles that haven't aired/been released yet (as the initial suggestion on this thread was all about).
Reading the other comments here, it seems to me the problem is not that people rate WHILE it is airing, but the fact that the overall score goes into the top rated shows while it is still airing... So, if you do decide you have a problem with rating and reviewing currently airing dramas, I think you can use an already existing setting on MDL to solve the issue. When you add a drama to your currently watching list, if the drama is still airing it says right there next to the title. Why not use that setting to prevent(as in BLOCK) currently airing dramas to go into TOP RATED SHOWS until they have finished airing?
I don't really see the problem with rating while they are still airing, as long as EVERYONE knows it is still airing and the overall score is bound to change as new episodes come out every week. I mean the info (start/end date) is there for everyone to see, not some classified data. Use the overall score at your own discretion (if you choose to be influenced or not by that score, if you care about it or not..)
Summing up:
- if the status of a drama/movie on MDL is upcoming/pre-production/filming/post-production, MDL users:
can add the title to their plan to watch list/ edit status as plan to watch
can add notes
can share on twitter, FB, MDL
cannot edit the title as completed, dropped, currently watching, on hold
cannot rate
cannot write review (the button is disabled)
- if the status of a drama/movie on MDL is airing:
the title overall score isn't added to top rated shows
MDL users cannot write review (the button is disabled)
MDL users can rate
Number of Episodes - "Do not include any special in the total. If unknown leave blank".
Duration - "The total number of minutes in an average episode. If you are not sure, leave it blank".
Start Date
End Date
For duration and number of episodes it's crystal clear. Why not make it the same for start / end date? You could add there an option called UPCOMING, for those shows that have no release date yet and write a note about this feature (like you explained what they should/shouldn't do about episode count and duration). Something like this: "Start date - Mdy (month day year). If no release date has been set yet, select UPCOMING". And then you insert below a drop down menu called "Upcoming" with these 4 sub-options: upcoming, pre-production, filming and post-production (the "upcoming" sub-option is in case you have no idea if they are still filming or they finished or what, you just know there is no clear release date yet ...). MDL users usually add/edit data about upcoming titles when they read news about it (x,y actors have been cast, they started filming, they wrapped up filming and so on). If someone is really interested about a certain title, I am sure that person would update the status when new info is available. If not there is always the general sub-option upcoming that would still serve its ultimate purpose...
So it could look like this: http://mydramalist.com/profile/GeaV/feeds/LOqljafJ
I think this option could solve a lot of problems in the same time and it's easy to control, as that info has to go through approval staff anyway, it's not like any MDL user can just mess with the start/end dates, right? If the one approving sees that the one submitting the info only added a year, he/she can change it to upcoming before approving...
*On a side note, it has always bothered me that if you browse through movies or dramas and you want to refine your search, when you select the "upcoming" criterion you only get the titles that have a complete release date on MDL. And that is not ok imo. If they only have the year (2015, 2016), they do not show in your search, even though they were already added to MDL, even though there is info available about the upcoming production. The pre-production, filming or post-production status all qualify as upcoming, wouldn't you agree?*
Back to what I was saying before, IF the drama /movie status says UPCOMING, you can then add some settings to block the option of rate/review (editing the status/start date as Upcoming should automatically disable the rate/review buttons, is that a complicated feature to add?) .
You can also block the option people have to select that title as "completed, currently watching, on hold and dropped". I mean as long as the movie is listed on MDL as upcoming (or pre-production , filming, post-production), when an user wants to add that title to his lists/rate/review, the title should automatically be locked for him/her like this:
Status: "plan to watch" -only option available to select, the others are blocked
Your rating: blocked, can't select anything
Share on: available, as he is free to share his plan to watch that upcoming title
Add note: available.
Now this is strictly about the titles that haven't aired/been released yet (as the initial suggestion on this thread was all about).
Reading the other comments here, it seems to me the problem is not that people rate WHILE it is airing, but the fact that the overall score goes into the top rated shows while it is still airing... So, if you do decide you have a problem with rating and reviewing currently airing dramas, I think you can use an already existing setting on MDL to solve the issue. When you add a drama to your currently watching list, if the drama is still airing it says right there next to the title. Why not use that setting to prevent(as in BLOCK) currently airing dramas to go into TOP RATED SHOWS until they have finished airing?
I don't really see the problem with rating while they are still airing, as long as EVERYONE knows it is still airing and the overall score is bound to change as new episodes come out every week. I mean the info (start/end date) is there for everyone to see, not some classified data. Use the overall score at your own discretion (if you choose to be influenced or not by that score, if you care about it or not..)
Summing up:
- if the status of a drama/movie on MDL is upcoming/pre-production/filming/post-production, MDL users:
can add the title to their plan to watch list/ edit status as plan to watch
can add notes
can share on twitter, FB, MDL
cannot edit the title as completed, dropped, currently watching, on hold
cannot rate
cannot write review (the button is disabled)
- if the status of a drama/movie on MDL is airing:
the title overall score isn't added to top rated shows
MDL users cannot write review (the button is disabled)
MDL users can rate
@Jin Well, it's like I said, if the majority - or simply you and Skye - are not in favour of eliminating episode rating altogether, fine. You can instead only allow rating for the episodes AFTER they've aired. In other words rating an episode is disabled until after the episode is likely to appear online (a general rule of thumb could be 24 hrs after it airs in Korea, Japan, wherever).That way you can at least ensure with some degree of certainty that those who are rating the episode have actually seen the episode. At the moment people can and often do rate episodes that haven't yet aired, which makes the overall listed rating untrustworthy as a gauge of public opinion because it includes bogus ratings that shouldn't have counted in the first place.
But if you don't like it, then forget it. It's your site.
But if you don't like it, then forget it. It's your site.
^ The main problem I see with this, is that most dramas don't have episode air dates on MDL. In fact, i'd say a very small minority even do (most of which are inputted after the drama has aired). Our community simply hasn't added them to MDL.
Anyways, we appreciate everyones contribution to this discussion. We will decide on what to do, and we will implement them when we get the much needed time.
Anyways, we appreciate everyones contribution to this discussion. We will decide on what to do, and we will implement them when we get the much needed time.
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