The Grave Sin of Infidelity: Forgiveness or No, what should Oh-aew do?

I absolutely agree, the writer of these series are male and difference is clear. I apologize for saying this, but BL content created by female writer is just bogus and too unrealistic to be true. I mean Takabatake is credited for mainstreaming BL genre but I hate to see such great potential going down the toilet with fan girling shit. 

What you said is absolutely true, East or South Asia, both regions have huge taboos, and culture and religious sanctions, so even till today a huge number of Asian people and communities don't know what LGBTQ is. And they associate Gay with male only. Female coming out in Asia is almost none to 0. So I agree to your point why they take such great interest in this genre and why it is a fanfiction for them. May be struggling with their own sexualtiy and not be able to express they choose this way. But it is so unfortunate that how BL is associated with dominsism. Every single BL series has one common element and that is "dominance". 

People say sexuality's spectrum is different for everyone, but I have really hard time understanding how can a boy who likes a boy says I am gay for you "only". This is the most outrageous concept of BL, but people say it is true and it happens. 

I for one, sure is one man person, if in a relationship I am monogamous. But saying I am only gay for you is not acceptable at all. 

Anyway, I too have a huge problem for BL, but the sad truth us this genre exist just like other genre. 

@Katia0415 Since you talked a little about K-pop, don't even get me started. The most dangerous profession these days is being an Idol. People look down on artists around the world, not just Asia. But being an artist, actor or idol is a job equivalent to death. These Idols that we see, can't walk, talk, speak, roam around, date or live freely. They look happy on TV and their fans or Army or whatever they are 50% responsible for their unhappiness, and remaining 50% is their agencies that lynch them over money. They literally brew these poor kids, and make money on them. 

100% artist end up lonely, depressed and out of life, when their peak is over. 

Do you believe that there is no gay artist or actor or idol in Korea? It is absolutely harsh truth of Korean culture can no artist, come out, there are tons of artist who are gay and suffering but they are unable to come out. 

Kim Joon Hyung, why did he commit suicide? He literally told people and cried on national television, that people will not accept his true self. Whether he was gay or not, he wasn't able to live his true self. There is no Shinee without him.

Cha In Ha, why all of a sudden he commited suicide, after successfully starring in a very lauded role? 

There are only two Korean artist known to be openly gay Hong Seok-cheon who came out in 2000 and was shunned for fucking 15 years, before he could salvage his career, he is old and doing well apparently these days and National TV allowed him on reality shows and it is only because he is a "sunbae" now. The toxic elder-younger taboo of Korea. 

Second is Go Tae-seob known as Holland, he is 25 now and struggling and funding his own music videos to made his mark. No agency has signed him as of yet. 

I salute you for coming out, and accepting yourself. It must have been death every day those eight years, I know how hard it is, how unhappy one can be when they are unable to speak truth to themselves. I hope you find happiness, love and peace. 

Oh and thanks to everyone for the exchanges on this last page or so....; very insightful.

To Ianto: you asked for my sources on theories about female BL consumption. Here are two. The one from NIH would, I think, go a long way in explaining the visceral reaction among (mostly the young, female, heterosexual) fans toward Teh’s actions with Jai. I always like to cite my sources on these things. You sound quite analytical, so as a fellow analytical personality, I include another article about the phenomenon throughout Asia. It’s definitely something to chew on.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6002055/

https://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/d00607/

Yes, this is what I find very interesting as well. BL and LGBTQ dramas look similar on the surface but serve VERY different sociological purposes. The former is designed to sell fantasy and sexual exploration and liberation to (primarily) heterosexual women; the latter is more about integrating the queer community into the media sector by telling our stories, increasing our visibility, and ultimately normalizing queer relationships. One of the biggest reasons the US achieved gay marriage so quickly was rapidly increasing visibility in the media; this drove a lot of people to come out, and once Americans realized that queer people were their neighbors, friends, and family, public opinion changed rapidly over just a couple of decades. The problem is that ITSAY appeared (to those who weren’t paying close attention) to be a BL, leading to expectations that IPYTM would be fantastical. When episode 3 came along and made it very clear that it refused to follow those conventions, fans who were expecting fantasy reacted badly. Ultimately, though, I think the reality check is necessary and applaud the production for sticking to their guns.

I don’t want to get too political here; suffice it to say that, having spent most of my time in Asia in China, I can say that there is a huge emphasis on conformity that starts from the government and trickles its way down through society. From a very young age, both publicly and privately, people are encouraged to pursue a “harmonious society,” and not rock the boat; to sacrifice their own comfort and happiness for the greater “benefit” of society. This is a tradition that goes back thousands of years in Confucianism. It therefore doesn’t surprise me that censors are resisting media that might very well do that. It also doesn’t surprise me that China is the largest market for BL and fluff, as you say; when the entire country is that suppressive both politically and (especially) socially, frustration needs to come out somehow. Unfortunately this means that healthy, dynamic conversations go unsaid in favor of saving face and appearing to conform to what is deemed “acceptable,” thus perpetuating the toxicity we have been discussing. 

I really hope that the nastiness that’s ensued over the last ten or so days doesn’t dissuade the truth-tellers, but I could see why it would. Social media mobs can be incredibly shocking to those they target. Apparently the Chinese fans in particular engaged in concerted efforts to down-rate IPYTM because of the Teh/Jai thing. Pushing back has its costs. Fortunately, social media “canceling” tends to blow over. The public tends to have a mercifully short memory, and I think the vast majority of fans will get over themselves eventually. I think if the two series were sold to Netflix, any losses could probably be recouped, as Westerners would not have the same expectations of the series and therefore are unlikely to react the same way. We’ll see.

@Katia0415 First of all, I am sorry I didn’t write back to you yesterday already, as I wanted to tell you to enjoy your holiday first and foremost and not to worry about rushing to get back to me with the texts you mentioned. In the meantime, I see you sent me links to two texts, for which I am extremely grateful, and, as I have just finished a novel, I shall have some interesting reading for the next few days. I also finally got round to downloading and printing the Wikipedia article on “Yaoi”, which I discovered a few weeks ago: it seems to be pretty well researched as an article, with over 200 sources listed, and interestingly enough, it also quotes the first article you sent me.

I am also rather chuffed that you recognised the analytical bent in me. Apart from my academic background (and the fact that I have always worked in higher education), I think that it also linked to the fact of being gay (yes, yes, same here :-)) and having naturally developed a point of view often different from the traditional mainstream. In particular, I think this analytical approach has been focused on understanding and deconstructing (and thus, opposing) the traditional tropes and ingrained dogmas that have usually made life very difficult, and sometimes impossible, for LGBTQ+ people.

It was interesting to read about your own background, and I am sorry that you needed a long time to advance and sort things out, although I think you said that you did not suffer that much. I was more or less open about things from the age of 18, and in the culture that I was born and raised in (UK, university culture), I soon concluded that visibility was definitely the route to acceptance (re. your remarks about marriage equality in the US). But then again, it was also because I just felt like I personally couldn’t live my life otherwise. And then, even in my youth (many, many moons ago), there were also many of the support structures that were already developing (GL, university gaysocs).

Also, just to let you know why I asked for these references….. retirement is not too far off now and I have started thinking about what I should like to do then. Apart from possibly learning another language (I am a linguist originally), or even possibly pursuing a degree in a field I am passionate about (I had thought musicology, but now….), I feel that I should like do some in-depth research into the whole field of BL, LGBTQ+ drama, etc., and possibly even write something about it. Like many of the comments above, of course, BL exists, that is how I even came to be interested in all of this, and, let’s be honest, I love a bit of good, healthy, smoochy fluff as well. But, by the same token, and you say it, there are some pretty toxic and even destructive elements in the BL universe and its creations, including some that are very much detrimental to the LGBTQ+ community. But then again, for many people the term “BL” seems to be pretty indistinctive and cover many different things, hence the whole kafuffle around IPYTM and Teh’s actions, in as much as the doctrinal adepts were expecting one thing and clearly got something else. I will not portray myself as a “sworn enemy” of BL (see my remarks above), but I do hope we are all right in thinking that changes are taking place and that the space for more realistic and wider-reaching LGBTQ+ drama is opening up.

Oab talking abut his performance as Jai and people's reaction.

https://youtu.be/pufFJoQl4wc