liddi:

Very true! Imagine he would have had less problems funding the Shen Nong remnant army had he chosen the correct wares to sell!

Lobsters and pearls.

 mparthur:

Lobsters and pearls.

Good idea. Next step is to make sure the man actually charges the right prices for them! He doesn't seem to have much business sense, undercharging for his deep sea prawns as it is!

For @Headintheclouds

FYI: I used Kaola translation for XL's quote when I wrote this essay back in September of last year, so now with all that I know now, I have it on my long list of things to do and that's to update the quotes with my own translation.

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."—  Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight

When I think about Xiang Liu, I think about this quote from Christopher Nolan’s "The Dark Knight." Xiang Liu maybe an antihero, but unlike Cang Xuan, all of his decisions and actions appear selfish on the surface, yet they actually stem from a place of heroic unselfishness, filial piety, and true love. Everything he does, has done, or will do results in him gaining nothing—no praise, no victory, no glory, and certainly no love. Somehow, he has portrayed heroic traits as well as antiheroic attitudes, transforming himself into a villain in the eyes of the people of Dahuang, and even to some audiences/readers.

Tong Hua put a lot of thought into Xiang Liu. The stream of maybes, I could imagine, as she sat in her place of comfort, sipping tea (or coffee) and pondering the what if’s.

What if a demon with a heart of gold falls in love? Will he become a hero? If so, to whom does he become a hero? Will he confess, hide his love, or demand her love in return? What if this young demon was greatly misunderstood, just learning to be human? Will love transform his demon heart into a human one?

Whatever was Tong Hua’s intention, in the end, she has written one of literature’s most complex antiheroes I’ve ever encountered. In Xiang Liu, we see a character who embodies Nolan's quote, walking the fine line between heroism and villainy, and challenging our understanding of morality and love.

Approaching Xiang Liu with a black and white understanding of Good and Evil, as well as clinging to Christian ideals of Gods and Demons, would hinder a nuanced understanding of his character, as he defies such simplistic categorizations and invites a more profound exploration of moral ambiguity and the depths of his persona. In the world of Dahuang, gods, demons, and humans are intermixed, characterized by the length of their lives and demons' inclination toward more primal, animalistic instincts. Yet, they all share the capacity for both good and evil, showcasing the complex moral spectrum that defines their existence.

Therefore, depending on the fence, and perhaps which side of history, you are standing on, you may see XL as a hero or a villain. He's regarded as a hero by the remnants of Chenrong and deemed worthy as an heroic rival by his opponents (CX even once tried to convince him to come to his aid), while others see him as a villain to be feared. The only person who truly understood this complicated persona was Xiao Yao.

Xiang Liu's character undergoes a remarkable transformation, evolving from a cold-hearted and aloof general into a symbol of the principle of repaying kindness. His journey is a testament to the profound impact of relationships on his character development. Initially, he is driven by the need to repay the kindness of FFB, his adopted father, Jing and Xiao Yao. His heart, once distant and unyielding, gradually softens as he falls deeply in love with XY, an emotion he never expected to encounter.

As Xiang Liu's love for XY grows, so does his determination to honor his fallen soldiers and ensure her peaceful life. He lays intricate plans, demonstrating the lengths he's willing to go to protect her. His heroic journey isn't just one of physical courage on the battlefield but also a transformation of his inner self, driven by love and the desire to secure a future of peace and happiness for XY.

XL has nine lives: one for himself, one for his adoptive father, and six for Xiao Yao—two to save her life, three to last her a lifetime and one for the man she wants to marry. He is willing to die nine times, while continuously crushing his only heart. In a paradoxical blend of antiheroic self-destruction and heroic self-sacrifice, Xiang Liu's demise ultimately ushers in peace to the world of Dahuang, serving as the catalyst to fulfill Cang Xuan's mission for a world where XY can lead a tranquil life with the one who will never abondon her. As he departs this world, leaving behind nothing but the legacy of a villain, to XY, he becomes the irreplaceable loss she'll carry with her always, a poignant tragedy, as she may never come to know the extent of his sacrifice.

Delving into Xiang Liu's sacrifices will invariably prompt a discussion of XY's own battles with selfishness and her inability to overcome the trauma of loneliness and abandonment. These two intertwined narratives illuminate the profound complexities of their relationship and individual character development.

Time and time again, Xiang Liu has demonstrated an unwavering ability to summon strength from the depths of his being to protect Xiao Yao. Regardless of injuries, diminished spiritual power, or even facing formidable armies, he fearlessly charges into battle for what he holds dear, showcasing his profound commitment to what he believes in and loves.

Xiang Liu has impressively prioritized XY while simultaneously balancing his filial devotion to his adopted father and commanding thousands of soldiers on the battlefield. However, within this intricate web of emotions and unspoken affection, they discover themselves entangled in an intense and uncharted emotional terrain. Yet, their relationship bears the strain of unresolved tensions, stemming from XY's self-centered yearning for love and fear of abandonment, and Xiang Liu's ongoing battle with his multitude of responsibilities, all of which contribute to the friction between them.

Adding to the intricacy of their relationship, they are like star-crossed lovers, trapped in the never-ending conflict between the remnants of Xiyan and Chenrong, a war that further complicates their already intricate bond. In their tumultuous journey, Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao have faced countless challenging encounters. Despite the hardships, XY harbors no blame toward XL; however, she finds it incredibly difficult to overcome the emotional scars left by their turbulent moments. Strangely, she manages to let go of the violence inflicted by Cang Xuan, the scars of which heal more readily than the wounds inflicted by the man she loves.

Her inability to let go of the trauma also serves as a barrier to Xiang Liu's approaches. He has faced rejection multiple times by XY and has been deemed unworthy to enter her dreams, a reflection of the lingering wounds in their relationship that both struggle to mend. XL, using these rejections as fuel, inadvertently pushes XY away, inflicting pain on his own heart, all while secretly laying plans for her to find happiness with Jing, despite the turmoil in his own emotions.

Yet, despite the pain, Xiang Liu served as Xiao Yao's mentor and protector, teaching her archery and life lessons during their dates. He encouraged her growth and offered fresh perspectives on life. As a poignant gesture, he gave her a map of the ocean, symbolizing his preparations for a future without him. These actions showcased his deep care for her well-being and left a lasting impact on her life.

"After decades of teaching you archery, you now have the ability to take care of yourself. You don't need your own body to shield someone you treasure when danger is around. You no longer have to endure solitude as your constant companion; you now have the right man to rely on. The sky is vast, and the oceans are deep. You now have a sanctuary to seek, free from the pursuit of others, and a place to call home. Xiao Yao, from now on, I can no longer stand watch to protect you. You have to take care of yourself. Wishing you a lifetime of worry-free happiness." — Xiang Liu

For @Headintheclouds

Note: This is my second essay about Xiang Liu in response to all the Jingering around XL punishment of XY. 

-----

One of the most debated controversies about XL is his initial violence towards XY during the Qingshui Town arc, and to understand this, one must delve into the foundational construct upon which his character is built. Xiang Liu's characterization is rooted in Confucian and patriarchal values, drawing inspiration from the nine-headed snake demon portrayed in Classical Chinese literature such as 'The Classics of the Mountains and Seas' and 'Investiture of the Gods.' Tong Hua crafted him with strong antiheroic traits and snake-like instincts.

The Analects of Confucius emphasize the importance of fulfilling one's duties to family and state, including filial piety, which stresses respect and duty towards one's parents. These two fundamental values deeply ingrain themselves in Xiang Liu as the General of Chenrong and the adopted son of Hong Jiang (Gong Gong). Even though he is not unique in this aspect in the world of DaHuang, XL, who hatched from an egg without parents and the love that comes from family, and had only known the violence of the fighting cages, has a strong desire to fulfill this.

A fateful encounter with Fang Feng Bei leads Xiang Liu to fulfill FFB's dying wish to take care of his mother in exchange for FFB's spiritual powers. To XL, it was not such a bad trade-off. After XY remarked that perhaps XL got the short end of the stick, he didn't hesitate to correct her, thanking FFB for letting him experience a mother's love.

Upon XL's return, he finds that the man, General Hong Jiang (Gong Gong), who saved his life once upon a time when he was a young demon, is now a fugitive general of a rebel army. He returns to his savior to serve him; however, he gets adopted by Hong Jiang as his son and heir. While readers and drama audiences never meet his adopted father, the narrative strongly emphasizes XL's affection for him. To XL, the adoption gains him a father and a family that he must protect. It just so happens that his newfound family is also the state (a fallen one nonetheless) to which he must remain steadfastly loyal.

When XY, a deity disguised as a man, chances upon the Chenrong Territory, Xiang Liu has no choice but to act upon his suspicion. Her prowess in poisons makes her all the more dangerous to XL, his family (Hong Jiang), and his state (Chenrong Army). The ensuing encounter is subject to wide debate, with some asserting XL's inherent villainy and irredeemability; therefore, undeserving of XY's love. However, XL acted upon what was close to his heart and chose to protect it, even if it meant overlooking the mere life of a woman deity in disguise.

After hearing her plead 'I have no ability to take care of myself; no one to rely on, and nowhere to go,' XL ultimately offers XY the opportunity to save her own life by becoming his man. Even though XY continues to resist to the very end, XL eventually concedes to her one demand in exchange for XY making poisons for him. Yet, to become XL's man also meant that as long as his duty of state is concerned, XY ultimately gives him consent to be used to ensure the protection of the Chenrong Army.

If XL is truly heartless, why spare XY and TSJ's lives at all? Instead, XL uses XY's knowledge of poison as an excuse to spare their lives. In doing so, XL is able to preserve their lives without losing authority and respect from his soldiers and enables him to keep an eye on her to safeguard his duties.

As XY and XL continue their relationship over several years, exchanging poisons in Qingshui Town, subsequent encounters between them, where XY ends up injured, can be traced to his origins as the nine-headed demon and his snake-like instincts. In the Penguin Classics translation of 'The Classics of the Mountains and Seas' (p. 121-122), Xiang Liu is described as having nine heads, each with a human face that feeds from nine mountains and a snake body. Wherever he goes and bumps, he creates open landscapes, heathlands, patches of pine forests, and small valleys. In the 'Investiture of the Gods,' Xiang Liu is introduced as a powerful demon general. In the Classics, and upon his defeat by the God Yu, XL's blood emanated a strong rotting odor as it seeped into the soil, making it impossible for anything to grow. As a result, even after his death, people still wouldn't dare shoot arrows towards the north. In these literatures, Xiang Liu was indeed a formidable demon.

Additionally, XL exhibits snake-like behaviors like hissing or coiling when he feels threatened or mocked by XY, who unfortunately has a bad habit due to her past experience with a snake demon. XL also possesses a red spiritual technique that mimics the constriction some snake species use to subdue prey. Most importantly, in other species, males may even use their jaws to grasp the female's neck during mating. XL, whose personality is a mixture of sarcasm and jest, initially bites XY as a warning for mocking him. Discovering her special blood, XL would come to her for healing, and as their relationship deepens, so does the physical connection of the neck biting.

Xiang Liu also exhibits a strong patriarchal trait in his need to provide for the people he cares for, especially for XY. In traditional patriarchy, men are considered the breadwinners and providers for their families. To XL, he had to create a balance in fulfilling his filial piety to his adopted father, duty to his state, and providing for XY. To XL, XY was akin to his wife due to the lover's bug blood oath as well as the 37 years under the sea. Even knowing and accepting his own demise, XL doesn't hesitate to provide for XY, ensuring she has the skills to protect herself and her loved ones, spending time with her as a companion, and serving as her mentor in times of emotional distress. He even leaves her a protector, Left Ear, to stand in his place if one day the world would no longer be safe for her.

 mparthur:

Lobsters and pearls.

XL could have been blinging with all this pearls...hahaha. 

Taking a trip on this beautiful day.


With his cute little hat :-)

 HeadInTheClouds:

Taking a trip on this beautiful day.


OMG!  That is perfect.  What a perfect cup?  Planter?

And the flower is the chef's kiss

 Kokuto:

OMG!  That is perfect.  What a perfect cup?  Planter?

And the flower is the chef's kiss

It's a planter. Not an imposing eagle. More a chicken :-). Chubby in his baby form :-).

And it's a hat, not a flower in his hair. I'll add another picture for clarity.

 HeadInTheClouds:
Taking a trip on this beautiful day.

 HeadInTheClouds:
With his cute little hat :-)

Awww... off to see the world with Mao Qiu, with a jaunty hat to complete the look! Very stylish!

 H19279:
i could buy Argentinian sea prawn (naturally caught size 12-20 pieces/kg”) for about 15-20 euro/kg in NL which is 117-157 Chinese yuan. The prawn sold in Chinese supermarket here is much more expensive (about double price if i remember correctly, same size)


 liddi:
Assuming that the prices he quoted are in yuan, then yes, this fellow is selling at a 50% loss. No wonder he is perpetually poor. For a fellow who keeps harping about transactions, he has no head for business (despite having nine heads) + thousands of hungry men to feed. It's a recipe for disaster.

So our 9-heads general have no head for business? Got it. I'm not surprised really considering all the "deals" that he made with XY gave him no benefits whatsoever. It's a farce that XY would believe that everything is transactional. 

What I am surprised about is the fact that he managed to keep the Resistance Army fed and sheltered for 300-400 years with those non-existent business skills of his :-)

 H19279:

@HeadInTheClouds,

Did he also have to do another life exchange to save her this time? We were not told anything this second time around and XY appeared to not be aware that XL was the one who saved her. I don't know, I feel like this is either a plot hole or XY knows, but she pretends not to know. After all, she would be aware by this point that they are connected via Lovers Bugs and what that means. This isn't out of character for YX to play stupid.

With regard  to her 2nd  “death”, i wrote an analysis long time ago, comparing her status with the Plum forest case. I think she fully awared that XL saved her.

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/121043-about-long-lovesickness-yaoliu?pid=2857065&page=3#p2857065

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/121043-about-long-lovesickness-yaoliu?pid=2857067&page=3#p2857067

Thank you. I definately missed these the first time around.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Thank you. I definately missed these the first time around. 

@Windiaaa was kind and she let me copy that post in her discussion. Other while I could not track it back Why did MDL save our post in an section in the profile?

 H19279:

@Windiaaa was kind and she let me copy that post in her discussion. Other while I could not track it back Why did MDL save our post in an section in the profile?

Yes. MDL should have that function so we can see all of our old posts. It's a pain trying to locate them.

You wrote a number of analysis that I've been trying to find. I think Kokuto used Google search to narrow things down. Might have to ask her how. 

 HeadInTheClouds:

Yes. MDL should have that function so we can see all of our old posts. It's a pain trying to locate them.

You wrote a number of analysis that I've been trying to find. I think Kokuto used Google search to narrow things down. Might have to ask her how. 

Later, I learnt myself that I should copy the link of my "long" post/analysis in an word file or another trick is I create a list (under the tab List, and designed it as private). Then I copy the link into the description of the list. Then at least,  I can find back links of some important posts online. 

Recently, a discussion has popped up in the Vietnamese LYF FB group about a particular article that was written in 2013, followimg the release of LYF that has ideas and ideas that maybe be the real source of  many deabted subjects mainly the fact the LYF is not a tradegy...and those ideas maybe have been wrrien off as Tong Hua perception of her own work.

Here's the story: when the novel "Lost You Forever" was debuted, an official article/news was published in 2013, written by Ye Lei. Subsequently, many different versions, either revised or copied from Ye Lei's writing were circulated online, falsely claimed to be written by Tong Hua. Here is the link to that official news:  https://epaper.gmw.cn/zhdsb/html/2013-02/27/nw.D110000zhdsb_20130227_4-23.htm

Here is the FB discussion: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/JEbUrqwDFoSWHFkY/?

Note: Some of the links that have posted to a comment if mine counterarguing about these things also do not exist anymore...which begs the question if those articles were flagged as misinformation and taken down.