Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 blimarch:

37 years since TSJ hired XL/FFB to go stop XY-FL's wedding in exchange of 37 years worth of army provisions for Sheng Nong's soldiers (Chapter 32) - not sure how much time passed between chapter 32 and chapter 38, but here we are.

I don't know exact number of year. However, we should count the number of years between the wedding robbery and the defeat of Shen nong Army. 

Did XY started editing the book before the marriage with FL (in Chapter 29). The wedding happened about 3 years later. It took total 42 years finishing the book then Jing set the wedding with XY. So it was already 39 year between that robbery and the planned wedding of Jing- XY. Jing was "killed" before the wedding and it took 7 years until he was back. XL died shortly after that. Therefore, it was about 46 years between the moment TSJ offered the provisions (in exchange of the bride robbery) and when the majority of Shennong army was perished

In the drama, it takes much less time finishing the book

 HeadInTheClouds:

As I stated, the Lovers Bugs as presented in the novel is open to interpretation. You and I are in complete agreement on that. As you pointed out, the novel doesn't give us enough information to draw clear conclusions.

Got it.

 HeadInTheClouds:

As the author, Tong Hua could have given enough information to draw clear conclusions if she had wanted to.

 HeadInTheClouds:

So, the Lovers Bugs never turn into Heartbreak Bugs, therefore XY's only ever romantically loves XL and her feelings for Jing are platonic love.

 HeadInTheClouds:

All this is to say that as a reader the inclusion of the Lovers Bugs (despite of the deliberate vagueness) points to a particular impression/conclusion for me when reading the story.

In terms of meta analysis / analysis of Tong Hua's intentions, the bug connection between XY and XL seems like a device that is intended to assure the reader that XY and XL have love (of some kind) in their hearts for each other throughout the whole story, no matter how much their words or actions might suggest otherwise. 

The fact that a bug connection was established between CX and XY calls into question whether the love that XY felt for XL necessarily had to be romantic love, since the love she felt for CX was platonic. However, the bug that XY planted in CX wasn't planted successfully. Tong Hua doesn't give the reader enough information about what that un-successful planting means to determine whether we can still use CX's connection to draw conclusions about XL's connection or not. I imagine Tong Hua deliberately left it open to interpretation.

But Tong Hua has clearly told her readers that she considers LYF to be a happy ending. I don't believe she would take that view if she had condemned her female lead to marriage with a man that she had no romantic feelings for, after killing off the only man that she did have romantic feelings for. Especially after all the time and effort that those two men put into saving her from a loveless marriage earlier in the story.

So my conclusion is that XY definitely loved XL deeply and consistently, and I'm fairly certain that the nature of that love was romantic rather than platonic. I'm also fairly certain that XY loved TSJ romantically. The love she felt for each of them was very different, but it was romantic in both cases. XY also loved CX deeply and consistently, but her love in that case was platonic and not romantic. 

 HeadInTheClouds:

So this reader is picking option 3 (with a splash of 2), Tong Hua is being sneaky and XY/XL is the only true ship with the Lovers Bugs as a big piece of evidence, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. I simply refuse to accept any other explanations no matter how reasonable or logical they are.

Everyone is entitled to their own interpretations and headcanons. ^^

 HeadInTheClouds:

Or maybe she doesn't wants to consummate the marriage and getting drunk as a skunk is just an excuse?? I don't know, delaying the marriage by 40+ years and then getting so drunk that you can't consummate your marriage are not exactly signs of enthusiasm. Yes, there are "reasons", but honestly it seems like more hints that things are not as they seems with XY and her feelings for Jing. Jing was happy to get marry ASAP - there are no doubt about his feelings for XY. XY on the other hand isn't acting like a woman madly in love. Maybe is just me, but if I'm madly in love with someone and we went through all these obstacles to be together, I would want to make sure that nothing can pull us apart again. And the wedding night; shy and embarrassed or not, I would be there with bells on. In those time too, the wedding night is quite significant, we all have heard that saying when watching Cdrama ancient series - something about a second of the wedding night is worth 1000 of gold.  Just more evidence to add to my impression box.

But to draw a definitive conclusion about XY's feelings, we would need to compare XY with XY, not XY with how the reader would hypothetically act in that situation. 

We don't know for sure how XY would act if she was engaged to someone else that she definitely loved romantically (let's use XL/FFB as an example) in the same situation that she faced in chapter 38. We can guess. But we don't know. If she had the opportunity to maintain a comfortable status quo where she got to see XL/FFB, CX and the Yellow Emperor every day while working on her medical texts for 42 years, maybe she would have had a 42 year engagement with XL/FFB too. If Sir Bi and Lie Yang came to her wedding with XL/FFB, she might've cried about her mother with them and gotten drunk with them in the same way.

Since we aren't able to make that comparison, I would be hesitant to conclude that XY's actions definitely give us clear insight into her feelings about TSJ specifically. 

Given XY's personality and personal trauma, I feel like it would be very out of character for her at that point in the story (chapter 38) to eagerly want the wedding date to come as quickly as possible after the end of TSJ's first marriage. When TSJ comes back from the dead at the end of the story, they choose to have the wedding very quickly thereafter. I feel like that also makes sense in-context and feels in-character for XY. 

 Kokuto:

The thing some people tout, 'acting girly,' is a sign of ACTING, not love.  To me, when XY does this, as in many of her romantic encounters with Jing, it's all about acting like how she thinks a girl in love should behave.  She even says something to that effect in Dragon Bone Prison, when she asks Jing why he doesn't want to kiss her, that she thought that's what guys wanted.  It's a girl trying to live out a fairy tale template, not a woman dealing with love and all it's imperfections.

 Kokuto:

Besides the fact that I find it offensive that someone thinks women have to act a certain 'girly' way or they aren't feminine and aren't capable of true love, this has always struck me as an odd metric for love.  For me, it's the opposite.  The truest incarnation of XL is WXL.

Although I agree that XY's personality when she is WXL is the closest out of all her personalities to her true self, I would point out that she still did a lot of acting when she was WXL. I would also point out that she is both bold and shy with TSJ as WXL and as XY.

Similarly, although I think she is often more honest and vulnerable with XL than she is with anyone else (including TSJ), she also lies to XL often and has to be very careful and strategic about how she acts around him at certain times in order to manage his reactions. 

Lastly, I would point out that XY blushes and has moments of shyness with both XL and TSJ. In both cases, I think those reactions are reflective of her genuine feelings and not something that she does for show or where she's trying to do what she thinks she's supposed to do. 

 blabla100:

Also I'd add that the depression and the sleepless nights she had were because she was feeling guilty towards Jing, not heartbroken over him.

I disagree with this interpretation.

XY did feel guilty about the role she played in the failure of their relationship, and guilty about not protecting TSJ from FFYY by telling him what she knew about FFYY. 

In addition to that, she also felt extremely heartbroken over losing TSJ, and the fact that she felt partly responsible for that loss made the pain of that heartbreak worse. 

 Kokuto:

Absolutely not.  XY is not at fault for FFYY and Jing's actions.

I disagree with this take.  I don't think she ever mentioned feeling guilt over FFYY.

Chapter 33:

Xiao Yao said, “All these years, I have not slept well and constantly thought about the past.”

Jing was shocked, he hadn’t slept one night well all these years either and constantly thought about the past. But Xiao Yao appeared fine, so Jing thought she had totally gotten over him.

Xiao Yao said, “Fang Feng Yi Yang is underhanded but you also gave her the chance. In the beginning I said it was fine and I didn’t care, but I hated you and resented you deep down. So at each occasion, I would either avoid you or act like I was fine. I never let you see that I was still affected by you, but I always took note of your reactions.”

Jing said, “I know, I was wrong.” Back then he thought Fang Feng Yi Yang was innocent and it was the Tu Shan clan that wronged her. He didn’t want to hurt her but then he forgot that by doing so then he ended up hurting Xiao Yao.

Xiao Yao said, “You were wrong but it wasn’t only your fault. All these years I’ve been diligently learning medicine and my attitude has changed a lot and the way I see things. I discovered that it wasn’t right for me to blame it all on you.”

“No, you were always good to me….”

Xiao Yao gestured for Jing to be silent and let her finish. “Xan Tian Er said that a person’s life was like walking a mountain road with no clue what to expect. People want a partner for the walk to assist and help. I promised to walk the road with you, but I was always pessimistically waiting. It was like if we went to climb a mountain and agreed to do it together, but when I saw you heading down the wrong path, I didn’t stop you and let you continue the wrong way. So I saw a drop and didn’t help you from falling and instead stood to the side watching coldly.”

Xiao Yao asked Jing, “Did you know that Fang Feng Yi Yang tried many times to kill Zhuan Xu? One time she even shot an arrow into his chest.”

“What?” Jing looked shocked.

Xiao Yao said, “Fang Feng Yi Yang was always polite and well-mannered in front of you, gentle and sweet, but I knew from the very beginning that she was calculating and deadly. I also knew you were soft-hearted and felt apologetic to her. Fang Feng Yi Yang was sure to use your personality and your regret against you. But I did nothing, I didn’t even warn you. I stood to the side and watched. My childhood made me pessimistic about human emotions. I felt like nothing will last forever and no one can be relied on. I never truly believed in you and I didn’t want to make the effort first. So when what I expected happened, I felt like it was exactly as I predicted. I knew people can’t be trusted. But I didn’t know that what we put in is what we get back. We need to make the effort to achieve the ending we want. Xan Tian Er said that if I never planted the seeds and tilled the field, how can I expect to reap the crop in the end?”

There were tears in Xiao Yao’s eyes, “Every night I thought about the fault and knew that I was wrong. My own pessimistic personality and attitude, my own distrust of others, it caused me to lose the man I like. If I made a bit more effort, said more or did more, perhaps the result would be completely different. Zhuan Xu thought I couldn’t get over it because I hated you, but in truth it’s because I can’t forgive myself. Jing, you shouldn’t feel guilty anymore. The world thinks we’re both very smart and calculating but when it came to our feelings and relationship, we both made mistakes. A person can make mistakes that can be fixed, other times it can never be fixed…”

Every night when she woke up from her dreams, she knew she was wrong but it was too late to fix. That pain was like a saw cutting through her bones. But it was all too late…

Xiao Yao’s tears fell and she turned around to use her sleeve to wipe her tears but it fell more and more.

Jing was so anxious he grabbed her “Xiao Yao, Xiao Yao….don’t cry! You did nothing wrong, I promised to make the effort and to have faith in you and to protect you, but I didn’t do it.”

Xiao Yao leaned her head on his shoulder and cried soundlessly. In the thousands of nights in the dark, she hated Fang Feng Yi Yang, hated Jing, and in the end, hated herself.

Jing felt like a knife was cutting his heart when he heard Xiao Yao crying. This was the first time she ever cried for him. When she heard Yi Yang was pregnant, she smiled at him. If he could choose again, he would rather that she act like she didn’t care, he would rather that she really forgot him. He didn’t want Xiao Yao to be as pained and tormented as him.

 blabla100:

@kokuto

"Xiao Yao said “Fang Feng Yi Yang was always polite and well-mannered in front of you, gentle and sweet, but I knew from the very beginning that she was calculating and deadly. I also knew you were soft-hearted and felt apologetic to her. Fang Feng Yi Yang was sure to use your personality and your regret against you. But I did nothing, I didn’t even warn you. I stood to the side and watched.

...

"There were tears in Xiao Yao’s eyes “Every night I think about the fault and knew that I was wrong. My own pessimistic personality and attitude, my own distrust of others, it caused me to lose the man I like. If I made a bit more effort, said more or did more, perhaps the result would be completely different. Zhuan Xu thought I couldn’t get over it because I hated you, but in truth it’s because I can’t forgive myself. Jing, you shouldn’t feel guilty anymore. The world thinks we’re both very smart and calculating but when it came to our feelings and relationship, we both made mistakes. A person can make mistakes that can fixed, other times it can never be fixed…….”

Every night when she woke up from her dreams, she knew she was wrong but it was too late to fix. That pain was like a saw cutting through her bones. But it was all too late……..

...

Xiao Yao leaned her head on his shoulder and cried soundlessly. In the thousands of nights in the dark, she hated Fang Feng Yi Yang, hated Jing, and in the end, hated herself."

Oh, you covered it already! My bad. ^^

 Kokuto:

I could be wrong about the rest of the quotes, but I don't think she's talking about FFYY, but about the way she was constantly testing Jing and not working on the relationship with him.

Not working on her relationship with TSJ included not warning TSJ about FFYY's true nature or trying to help him come up with a strategy to deal with FFYY (the way XY does later in the novel). XY realized she could have stopped the pregnancy and marriage debacle if she had spoken up, and she felt deep regret that she instead silently watched those events unfold without trying to intervene. Effectively letting them happen. 

 Kokuto:

But again, I absolutely do not think this is on XY, even if she's trying to take the blame.

I'm on the fence here. The ones who are most responsible are FFYY, TSJ's grandmother and even Hou (who intentionally seduced FFYY). TSJ also bears some responsibility. TSJ chose to return to the Tushan clan, he chose to live with FFYY, he chose not to defy his grandmother when it came to the engagement, and he chose to blindly trust his grandmother. XY did not actively contribute to what happened, but she likely could have prevented it if she spoke up. She definitely isn't solely responsible, but she's not unreasonable to say that she bears some of the blame.

Yes, we know for sure CX was more important to her than Jing, but how about XL? Where does XL sits? I mean he did try to kill CX în chapter 46, what would have happened if he successed? Was he that certain that XY's bug won't turn on him? What's the explanation? I don't belive that his target was FL, he tried twice to hit CX and he made sure to be fatal, because he did put poison on the arrows. 

 blimarch:

Speaking of which, @liddi : in the S2 leaked script does XL realize that the Yellow Emperor/Grand Emperor/CX trying to bring him to abandon Chenrong at all costs is suspicious? Are they elements that can support that XL understands that they do that for XY and, by extention, that XY loves him just like Ah Heng loved Chi You? Even knowing that if XL understood this and realised that it would give him a chance to be with XY, it won't change his mind and the ending he chose for him.

Because in the novel I didn't feel like it, given that there had been numerous attempts to poach him (I might be wrong, @AH ?). 

I agree that, in the novel, CX's attempts to get Gong Gong or XL to surrender or switch sides were numerous and not solely motivated by concerns about XY's connection with XL. So XL would not necessarily be aware that the Yellow Emperor had an inkling of XY's feelings for XL and that that insight motivated the Yellow Emperor to ask CX to spare no effort to bring XL over to Xuan Yuan's side. Or that XY personally begged CX to spare XL's life before the final battle.  

The things that CX promises probably seemed too good to be true, but rather than thinking that these promises must be motivated by something else (e.g., concern for XY) Gong Gong and XL would be more likely to conclude that CX would not fully uphold all those promises after they surrendered, since they would no longer have any leverage to hold him to his promises after surrendering. 

 blabla100:

Yes, if I am not mistaken, she made that perfume for herself when she used to hang out with FFBei and she named it Dream. She eventually gave it to MiaoPu to use it. 

Yep. One more beautiful detail from chapter 43.

Interestingly, in her flashback she thinks of the man who accompanied her to the flower demon shops as "Xiang Liu" and not "Fang Feng Bei". 

-----

Chapter 43:

Xiao Yao examined Miao Pu and found her fine and just passed out. She fed Miao Pu a pill before moving her to the inside cabin to rest.

Xiang Liu asked Left Ear, “Why didn’t you kill Miao Pu?”

Xiao Yao walked out of the cabin. “Yes, why didn’t you kill her?” With Left Ear’s personality and background, if he attacked it would be swift and ruthless, but Miao Pu was only slightly injured.

Left Ear said, “She smelled like your scent.”

Xiao Yao thought about it and realized why. Back then she often went to the flower demon shops to play with Xiang Liu, and tried many different essences. She thought it fun to combine essences into unique scents and made some which she gave to Ah Nian and Xing Yue. She kept one for herself that she named “dream”, and later Miao Pu liked it so Xiao Yao gave it all to her after getting bored with using it herself.

Xiao Yao mused with a sigh, “I haven’t played with scents in a long time, but it’s been tens of years and you still remember the scent?”

Left Ear said, “I remember!” Back then he was dirty and smelly and everyone shrank away from him, too scared to even get close. Xiao Yao’s hug was the first time anyone had ever hugged him. He didn’t know what Xiao Yao was thinking but he forever memorized her unique smell. It was a scent that was present yet drifting, distant yet close, like a starry sky in a summer’s night.

Xiao Yao couldn’t help but sigh at the vagaries of life, who knew her one casual action so many years ago would end up saving Miao Pu’s life today.

 H19279:

I have a question to all of you. Why did Sir Bi say to XL " “Even if Tu Shan Jing is dead, I’m still relieved that the guy Xiao Yao picked was him.”.

I don't think because of  not only that he did not  want to see that the history repeated (XY-XL ~ AH-Chi You).

"Sir Bi stared at Xiang Liu “I heard your reputation isn’t so good out in the world?”

Xiang Liu chuckled “My reputation is just a hairsbreadth better than Qi Yo.”

Sir Bir grew silent before asking “You and Xiao Yao……….you two really are just friends?”

Xiang Liu smiled before turning to look at Xiao Yao “The person Xiao Yao is missing is Tu Shan Jing.”

Sir Bi sighed in relief “That’s good.”

Xiang Liu said mockingly “Can’t believe my reputation is so bad even a demon raised by Qi Yo would disdain me.”

Sir Bi shook his head “No, I don’t disdain you at all. It’s the opposite, I truly respect you! Your heart is as clear as crystal, even my voice cannot enchant you or lead you astray. Power, wealth, and glory hold no sway or temptation for you.”

Sir Bi stared at Xiang Liu and looked truly conflicted, like he was looking at Xiang Liu but seeing another great man from long ago “It’s not that you’re not good……..it’s just that…….for Xiao Yao……” Sir Bi sighed loudly “Even if Tu Shan Jing is dead, I’m still relieved that the guy Xiao Yao picked was him.”

 blabla100:

@H19279

We had discussed this fragment in the past,

blabla100  is correct. We have discussed this conversation between Sir Bi and XL, and those highlighted lines specifically, several times in this thread. 

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2783907&page=168#p2783907

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2783949&page=168#p2783949

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2783961&page=168#p2783961

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2783963&page=168#p2783963

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2807737&page=202#p2807737

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2807833&page=202#p2807833

I do think that Sir Bi said, "Even if Tu Shan Jing is dead, I’m still relieved that the guy Xiao Yao picked was him.” because he did not want to see XY repeat her mother's tragedy. 

Sir Bi sees XY picking a man like TSJ (even if he's dead) as a relief if it meant that she didn't pick XL, who, in the eyes of both Sir Bi and the Grand Emperor, was too much like Qi Yo. They both feared that XY would repeat her parents' tragedy.  

 H19279:

No, At that time the death of Qing Yang was kept secret with Shao Hao, Ah Heng, Chang Yi couple.

Chang Yi just picked up the bride and performed in the ceremony (typical wedding with 3 prays for the God, parents and each other). There was no wedding night. for Yu Xang. She stayed and lived in Zhaoyan peak with Lei Zhu and Ah Heng.

Wow. I feel like I say this for every character in Once Promised, but Yu Xang was really dealt a crappy hand. 

Her mother, sister, father and brother died. She wasn't able to be with the man she loved (Nu Nai). She was betrothed to the eldest prince of the kingdom that invaded her country and the son of the man who killed her brother. After the marriage her best friend (Ah Heng) revealed that the brother she supposedly married (Qing Yang) was already dead and that the other brother (Chang Yi) secretly took his place for the wedding. And then after the final battle resulted in Sheng Nong's defeat, she killed herself. Really, really crappy.

 H19279:

I don't know exact number of year. However, we should count the number of years between the wedding robbery and the defeat of Shen nong Army.

Did XY started editing the book before the marriage with FL (in Chapter 29). The wedding happened about 3 years later. It took total 42 years finishing the book then Jing set the wedding with XY. So it was already 39 year between that robbery and the planned wedding of Jing- XY. Jing was "killed" before the wedding and it took 7 years until he was back. XL died shortly after that. Therefore, it was about 46 years between the moment TSJ offered the provisions (in exchange of the bride robbery) and when the majority of Shennong army was perished

In the drama, it takes much less time finishing the book

If you're talking about the novel, XL steals XY away from her wedding with Feng Long in chapter 32 and the Sheng Nong remnant army is defeated in chapter 50. I think we calculated the amount of time that passed between those chapters before. It was definitely way more than 46 years. iirc it was more like 60 years.

 blabla100:

@AH

"The fact that a bug connection was established between CX and XY calls into question whether the love that XY felt for XL necessarily had to be romantic love, since the love she felt for CX was platonic."

The bugs are called lover's bugs, not love bugs for a reason, IMO the couple must share romantic love  for them to work. A few pages back liddi explained their exact meaning in chinese

" The novel refers to it as 情人蛊.

情人 literally means lovers in the romantic sense - there is no ambiguity there.

蛊 refers to a poisonous bug, often used in witchcraft.

So the lovers bug 情人蛊 is unequivocally meant for a couple who are in love with one another."

The name of the bugs is unambiguous. I don't disagree with that. I would even go further to point out that the Voodoo King said that lovers produce Lovers' Bugs and not-lovers produce Heartbreak Bugs. Not ambiguous. 

And yet the situation with CX introduces ambiguity. It doesn't matter what they're called or what the Voodoo King said. If there was evidence that the Lovers' Bugs could be used to establish a bug connection between two people of opposite genders who had love in their hearts for each other, where the recipient (CX) had romantic love for the cultivator (XY) and the cultivator (XY) had platonic love for the recipient (CX), then that would mean that the bugs must be able to work that way in other cases (e.g., where XL was the recipient). 

XY was able to use the Lovers' Bugs to establish a connection with CX even though she only had platonic feelings for him. That connection caused CX to feel XY's pain (and possibly other sensations) and XY was able to sense CX's approach through that connection. However, XL said that the bug was not "successfully" planted because CX did not willingly accept the bug, which allowed XY and XL to transfer the bug to XL. Tong Hua doesn't tell us more about what the "unsuccessfully planted" bug means. Maybe the connection between CX and XY proves that the Lovers' Bugs can be used by opposite-gender people with love in their hearts, even if the cultivator's love for the recipient is only platonic. Or maybe it doesn't, because the unsuccessful planting was a factor that changed how the bugs worked. We don't know for sure.

As we agreed before, it's open to interpretation. 

I personally think XY had romantic feelings for XL, but I don't think the bug connection is absolutely unequivocal proof that XY's love for XL had to be romantic.