Isn't his astral fox a magical tracking app?Kokuto:
I agree with everything in your post above.
Ha! A magical tracking app! I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.
Thanks. I more I look into it, the more I dislike this character. Sad sob story doesn't change his problematic behaviour. He's selfish, weak, cowardly and lacking honour.
So, does the same apply to XL? If he ruined her wedding because he thought she was making a mistake and was going to be unhappy, then yes.
Both Xiang Liu and Jing interfere with Xiao Yao's decision here. It's definitely presumptuous on Jing's part considering that he has no leg to stand on when it comes to Xiao Yao after his utter failure to deal with his family issues. It's like your ex who married another woman, but then comes around talking about caring for your happiness. Kindly f off. And it's not purely out of selflessness either because he would like to reconcile. *snerk*
But maybe not presumptuous on Xiang Liu's part. I think it's because they knew that Xiao Yao would be miserable in this marriage. And for Xiang Liu, it's probably because he knew that Xiao Yao didn't want to marry Feng Long. If she was truly committed to it, she wouldn't have sent Xiang Liu that crystal ball - that was like a cry for help. Between Jing and Xiang Liu, XL is probably the only one who can claim to be selfless in his behaviour.
IMO, he's in a different situation, because I think XY asked XL for help, when she sent him that crystal globe.
Agreed. See above.
I know others don't agree, but I still think taking her away from the wedding, was his answer to her half a$$ed confession, and he was giving her a chance to admit her love, but she still couldn't do it.
Agree that Xiao Yao's confession was half-assed! She's still hedging her bet by not being direct and frankly if she was determined and committed, she would have called off her wedding to Feng Long. She and Jing are a great pair, both cowardly. Where we differ is that I think by this point, Xiang Liu has truly removed himself from the race. I think if he had wanted a more direct confession from her after receiving that globe, he would have been more direct about it.
I remember somewhere that Tong Hua said she tried to write the book so that XL survived, but the character wouldn't allow it -- or something to that effect. I don't remember her saying he was supposed to her romantic end game, however.
I remembered that she wanted to change the story so that Xiang Liu would end up with Xiao Yao. It's like Chinese Whisper, which is the original? We need to find that interview
Y'all chatterboxes need to chill. I haven't caught up yet! Still on page 355.song:
Wow! You are committed. Can you see if you can find that interview that we're talking about on your journey through these pages??? :-)
The similarities are likely intentional, knowing Tong Hua.
Unfortunately, I don't think it is as he's based on a mythical character by that name. But, it's a lovely coincidence as it fit the role that he played well :-)
IMO, the added drama scene seems to be framing the lead-up to the assassination attempt as a moment where XL was definitely deciding whether he was willing to kill CX, despite knowing how much it would hurt XYAH :
I personally had no doubts that the person he was targeting was CX, he really wanted to have him killed, not because he thought that his army can stand a chance if he dies, but because his duty to his soldiers was more important to him than XYblabla100:
They really tried hard not to diminished XL sacrifices but to assassinate his character as well, like hammering it in to the audience why XL is not the Mr. Right for XY, because he ultimately chose Shen Nong army explicitly by trying to assassinate CX, not only because he can‘t abandon Shen Nong army and will die with them on battlefield.luv2bafangurl:
I'm gonna be the lone naysayer here, but I love this change! One of the things that I didn't like about the novel was that I thought Xiang Liu let Cang Xuan off too easily and would have liked to see a few more assassination attempts. Cang Xuan's life was spared twice because XL didn't want to harm Xiao Yao. How many more times does he have to spare Cang Xuan to show that he loves Xiao Yao?
Maybe because I don't "ship" YaoLiu, but I don't like to see every one of Xiang Liu's actions revolve around how they impact Xiao Yao. Xiao Yao is not and should not be the centre of his universe. That cheapened and diminished his character, IMO. It turns him into some kind of lovesick fool whose every decision revolves around a woman. That's Jing's territory. While their love story is one central aspect of his character it isn't the only thing. The thing that I like about this character is the fact that he tries to balance his numerous conflicting responsibilities and desires; trying to reach the best possible outcomes for all the people that he cares about even at his own expense.
And all these comments about him choosing Shen Nong's Army over Xiao Yao like it's a bad thing. How much more does he have to sacrifice for Xiao Yao for it to be enough? Are three lives and countless other arrangements not enough? Xiao Yao's insistence on someone placing her first is unreasonable and incredibly selfish considering she is not willing to do the same thing. And yet, Xiang Liu's looking out for his Army somehow makes him unworthy? Taking out Cang Xuan won't change the ultimate outcome, but it will buy his Army time. He would not be doing right by his comrades and his adoptive father if he did not try because he was afraid of hurting Xiao Yao.
Emphasizing to the audience that XL carefully thought about it, decided hurting XY was worth it,
Knowing Tong Hua's view that while love is important, other things in life are just as important, I wouldn't be surprised if this is her doing. The lives of his comrades and his adopted father vs. Xiao Yao's being devastated? Yes, it's worth it. He would be an absolute moron if he doesn't try.
Second, they've added yet another scene where XL is alone and sad, angry or brooding because of XY in a way that feels different from XL in the novel. Idk. He comes across as more bitter? I'm not sure that's exactly the right word, but something like that. And less dignified somehow.
Agree with this one. In the novel, Xiang Liu never comes across as undignified. All these scenes of him being tormented and acting out are not at all like him. Particularly that scene when he "experienced" YaoJing's intimacy. Was is the purpose of that?
Like in the first season AH and H19279 discussion pointed out how the drama diminished Jing‘s character and contribution to WXL failed escape from CX
@ AH,
It is not simple to implement every detail from the novel to drama. Thus I can understand if they simplify some scenes.
There is one thing I would like to emphasize that Jing indeed wanted to help WXL escape because he also wanted to escape from his TSJ identity as well. He wanted to escape together with her and stay with WXL forever. Thus he made a lot of effort for them to escape QS town. Both of them had the ability that once they wanted to "disappear", none could find them.
Xiao Yao had the Face Forming Flower inside her and Jing was the descendant of the Nine Tailed Fox. Once they departed, they could disappear forever. (Chapter 51)
However, YSQ knew that he could not find WXL if she escape alone and he was behind. Jing had special vision ability. XL could not see WXL's transformation trick, neither Jing. So if WXL transformed, he could not recognise her again. And in his mind, he could not let it go, losing her since she was more important than his own life.
Jing said: "The Tu Shan clan is not a pure god bloodline, our ancestors in ancient times were nine-tailed fox demons with great magical powers, so the bloodline of the Tu Shan clan is always born to change. I have a spiritual eye, and I can see through almost all the illusion and obstacle techniques, so I can see Ah Nian's true face, but I can't see through you, everything about you seems to be real, but my intuition tells me that your appearance is fake, so... I can't leave you, and once you do, you'll be gone forever, leaving no trace. ”
-------
"You didn’t just heal my body, you saved my soul. You will never be able to imagine how much I wish I were Ye Shi Qi. But I have no choice but to be Tu Shan Jing. Because of this, more than you I hate myself. I know you hate Tu Shan Jing so I control myself not to come visit you. But I’m scared to leave. You gave Ma Zi a family, you found Xan Tian Er for Chuan Zi, you set up everything for Lao Mu. You are already prepared to leave it all behind and continue wandering. I’m afraid if I turn around even for a second, I won’t be able to find you ever again.”
----------
Xiao Liu laughed “Then I’m going to abandon you and run.”
Shi Qi grabbed his shoulder with his voice slightly shaking “Let me see your true face.”
Xiao Liu smiled and shook his head “No.”
Shi Qi stared at Xiao Liu with unspeakable sorrow in his eyes. Once he walked out of here, Xiao Liu can become anyone else. Once Xiao Liu stopped being Xiao Liu, then Shi Qi would never be able to find him again. (Chapter 8)
Jing said “No, I see you as more important than my life. Xiao Yao, you resented me for saying I wasn’t good enough for you yet I refused to let go. Actually, I know that you can go on just fine without me. I know that Fang Fang Bei is more suitable for you. But I can’t let you go, as long as I am alive then I can’t! I’m sorry, I’m sorry…..” (Chapter 22).
Jing was very intelligent and he was good at calculating too. He transformed to WXL to get some time for WXL to walk out of the spot. But then why did he fight CX's squad like crazy? He already knew there were 2 masters which is much more superior than him, fighting against them is pointless. And he also knew that the status of Tu Shan Jing gave him some security.
Xiao Liu grabbed Shi Qi’s hand “Will they kill you?”
“I am Tu Shan Jing, even if the Grand Emperor was here he would have to consider before killing me. Mere generals won’t even dare.”
So, even if CX saw that was fake WXL, he just had to say he was Jing, then CX would not kill him. I don't think CX would beat him either if he had said he was TSJ.
Shi Qi had used all his powers as one to fight with many so he depleted all his energy and was passed out. He had no internal injuries and was in no life threatening danger.
I am also curious of his 9 tailed fox's ability of transformation. It should be excellent as said in White Emperor's comment. Below is the ability of the doll made of 1 fox tail:
Jing Ye slapped his hand away “This is a doll made from the fox tail of a ten thousand year old nine-tailed fox. It’s extremely rare. The nine-tailed fox is the best at transformation and the tail is where all the power gathers. These two tails have tens of thousands of years of power. Using it to make fake people, even if Fuxi Emperors came back to life with his powers he wouldn’t be able to tell the truth or falsehood.”
And CX's spiritual level was not top notch either. However, it seems that CX could see the fake WXL very quickly so that WXL did not have enough time to reach to Jing's flying animal. All the evidence implied that he plotted the whole scene to keep WXL with him.
I agree that during this situation, novel Jing showed his intelligence better than the drama Jing. And I also believe that the drama kept the core message here that he theatered this scene to prevent WXL running away as well as making her felt responsible, indebt of him (he got injured due to helping her). The drama wanted to push for 1:1 relationship between Jing-XY. They should have not potrayed him in such way. But the core spirit of Jing's action is it what is it. And it is the only reasonable way to explain why WXL could not escape successfully.
XY never been XL's choice
I'm disagreeing with this again, since I think accepting the Love Bug showed he chose XY, or more precisely, WXL. Plus, Elise provided this quote and GIF, which is pertinent to my argument that XL wasn't always planning to die with the resistance army.
"Wen Xiao Liu, we'll settle this account slowly. We have all the time in the world."Elise:
While I agree that thoughts and actions are separate things and thoughts don't mitigate the consequences of our actions, I'm not sure I would agree that those thoughts didn't influence his behaviour.
Yes, thoughts influence behaviour; all actions start with thoughts. But thoughts/intentions don't mean anything unless the actions follow. I always think about going to the gym, but unless I do, I will not see changes (if only, haha). And that comment was meant to be a general one, not specific to a particular case. If Jing does a manipulative action, it doesn't matter if he wants to be x, y or z.
As a further note on thoughts vs. actions, the impact of our actions matters. But our intentions also matter. I would definitely think less of TSJ if his actions (e.g., asking for the promise and the reminders) were part of a plot to intentionally manipulate and trap XY, rather than the result of TSJ earnestly acting on his feelings (with no malicious intent) and trying to do the best he could in difficult circumstances with a complicated and contradictory love interest with deeply-rooted, trauma-based issues.
I wouldn't use trap, but I would say that the promise was his way of manipulating the situation to give himself the best chance with Xiao Yao. And because I firmly believe that he sees Xiang Liu as a threat, it's a way to manipulate Xiao Yao into keeping her distance from Xiang Liu. Someone with his supposed intelligence surely would be aware of the benefits of this promise.
The fact that he's earnest in his feelings for Xiao Yao does not change the fact that his behaviour is manipulative. His desperate desire to be with Xiao Yao would be a great catalyst for his less-than-honourable action. He could choose to act honourable, but that would put him at a disadvantage so he put his self-interest first. Jing is a merchant - putting self-interest/profit first is second nature to him.
The plum wine saga is a helpful example.
The original sending of the wine was his way of subtly reminding Xiao Yao. I don't have a problem with what he did after he and Xiao Yao came to an understanding, but the original act still stands.
She wasn't forced. You could say that TSJ influenced or manipulated her to some degree, but I don't subscribe to the notion that she was all that trapped by the promise.
Yes, she wasn't forced and she has her reason for saying yes and like I said, that's on her. Whether or not she was "trapped" depends on how you view Xiao Yao. Did what happened in her childhood make her more likely to try her best to keep whatever promises she made? And does Jing know this? If the answers are yes, then the promise is designed to "trap" her. If the answers are no, then it's a manipulation. Nevertheless, it creates a bond and expectations, increasing the likelihood of achieving the outcome that Jing wants. Bond and expectations that he should never have asked for when he was not free.
While I do blame TSJ for creating expectations in XY that he wasn't able to meet, and hurting her deeply as a result, I also have some sympathy for his situation.
That is a highly unusual and deeply messed up situation. It's not a "regular, sleazy married guy keeps telling his mistress he's going to divorce his wife, but has no intention of really doing so" scenario.
My use of that scenario was more to illustrate how wrong Jing was in asking for that promise, rather than a 1:1 comparison. Jing's intention may be genuine, but the outcome was still not honourable.
I don't deny that Jing experienced terrible things at the hands of his awful family. All four main characters in LFY experienced trauma. Do I have sympathy? Yes, to a certain extent, but it runs out when Jing's behaviour becomes problematic. Your sad stories are reasons, but not excuses for awful behaviour. Just as an abuser can't use their history of being abused as an excuse for their current wrongdoings. We'll all experience adversities to some extent or another, and how we deal with the adversities shows our true character. It's the difference between being judged with sympathy and admiration vs. pity and disdain. Jing falls into the second category for me. It isn't just one thing, but a culmination of things.
I think you view Jing in a far more sympathetic and benevolent light than I do. Maybe I'm just ornery in my advancing years :-), but I have a low tolerance for excuses for bad behaviour. Take responsibility for your actions, deal with your issues.
Nevertheless, I do find myself taking XY's failings into consideration when I assess how I feel about TSJ's worthiness and compatibility with her.
My judgment of Jing is based on his behaviour rather than in conjunction with Xiao Yao and his worthiness and compatibility with her. Xiao Yao displayed plenty of questionable behaviour that was side-eye worthy so they are plenty compatible and worthy of each other :-). I see their relationship as a highly unhealthy, co-dependent mess born out of their individual psychological issues. The two of them ending up together was logical to the story that we were given. Whether they will be happy and stay together is a different story.
That said, he's not alone. While it doesn't in any way lessen how unhealthy and problematic TSJ's behaviour is, XY, CX and XL also engage in a ton of their own problematic behaviour.
Yes, none of these characters are perfect. I roasted Xiao Yao plenty. Don't care about Cang Xuan enough to pay attention to him. And I love him to bits, but Xiang Liu has his flaws. If there's an extreme way to do something, he'll probably pick it :-). Probably has a strong Scorpio influence in his birth chart :-). It's fitting since he's a serpent.
I do think intentions matter. But at the end of the day intentions alone don't get you very far.
Absolutely.
In his self-examination, he thought to himself that perhaps he couldn't let her marry another man. He also thought that perhaps it was XY's look of sadness.
It comes back to every action started with a thought. Perhaps still indicates that it was part of his motivation so it was not out of selfless desire for Xiao Yao's happiness. Considering my view of Jing as driven by selfish desires to be with Xiao Yao and his happiness that she won't marry Feng Long, I would give the selfish reason a bigger portion of the pie. But yes, we cannot say with certainty which reason took the majority.
But if we look at his actions, we know that TSJ was aware that XY and XL/FFB were very close, and he still asked XL to be the person to ask XY not to marry Feng Long. Wasn't there a real risk of XY then marrying XL instead? Isn't it possible that XY was basically asking XL for that scenario when she sent him the ice crystal ball?
Jing doesn't have many options at that point. He was desperate. It's better to deal with the immediate problem of Feng Long, so he couldn't afford to not use Xiang Liu/FFB. I don't think Jing was aware of the crystal ball.
And then, after XL disappeared with XY for a month, TSJ didn't try to find XY. Again, as far as TSJ knew, there was a real risk that in that time XY would become irreversibly romantically entangled with XL after running away with him. They might even elope. And TSJ didn't try to prevent that possibility.
I don't view this as an indicator that Jing was selfless. Rather, it's part and parcel of his ineffectiveness and impotent. Despite his intelligence, there is a sense of helplessness about Jing throughout the novel. He wasn't able to deal with his issues effectively. Willing, but unable is Jing's motto.
The bottom line is that Jing will never ever let Xiao Yao go despite whatever thoughts or lip service he pays. The only things that prevent him from being with her was his inability to effectively deal with his family drama. I genuinely don't know what Tong Hua was thinking when she created this character.
I agree with AH about the marriage though. Moreover, I belive Jing was aware about XY's feelings for XL and I kinda think he tried to pay him not only to set her free, but also to give XL a reason to act on their feelings and give them an oportunity to be togheter. Sort of I love her, but since I can't have her, at least let me help her to be with the one she loves.
Nope. I don't see that sort of motivation for Jing at all. He screwed over his alleged best friend Feng Long more than once about XY and he screwed over XY with any other man with his 15 year promise, and he already showed he was fine treating her as a sidepiece. With her desperate need to give him chance after chance after chance, why wouldn't he think he could eventually win her back with another line of 'good intentions?'
nathsketch:
That's why I'm trying to find that interview. Maybe I'm completely nuts, but I think there was something there about his reason for existing.
In my opinion Jing was there for XY to use him as substitude for XL. He is the place where she could vent her emotion, her desire that she had with XL but she could not do. He was there to be her pamper whenever she got hurt by XL. She used his name to cover some emotional burst when she talked to other about her problem. Sometimes the problem really came from him but sometimes it was her problem with XL. And last, he was there so that the FL would have a not-tragic ending
H19279:
In my opinion Jing was there for XY to use him as substitude for XL. He is the place where she could vent her emotion, her desire that she had with XL but she could not do. He was there to be her pamper whenever she got hurt by XL. She used his name to cover some emotional burst when she talked to other about her problem. Sometimes the problem really came from him but sometimes it was her problem with XL. And last, he was there so that the FL would have a not-tragic ending
Yes, I agree. He doesn't even feel like a real character. More like an afterthought. Just a replacement for someone better and that gets to be alive at the end. It also doesn't help that the drama version is so...you know...I better shut up haha.
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