Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 liddi:

We were never told when the flower regained its powers

It's true that the text doesn't specifically say that the flower regained the ability to enable XY to undergo undetectable transformations when the Grand Emperor extracted it from her in chapter 37. But since the text doesn't describe anything else happening to the flower between chapter 37 and chapter 46, it seems pretty safe to conclude that the flower must have regained its transformation-enabling power at that point. 

 liddi:

The irony though is that even her face before those 300 years were never hers as well, forcibly hidden behind yet another fake appearance, and it was only with the Royal Mother's help that she faced the world with her true face for the first time ever in her life.

I wonder if a parallel can be drawn with XL here?

• True Form / Hated Form / Monster Form
  • XY's form at birth is her truest form - but that form betrays her status as Chi You's daughter. That status, when known, makes her hated, targeted, and reviled by many. When she returns to this form, her life is put at risk. She also believed that she was ugly, even though she wasn't. There is also a period in XY's early life (after she escapes from Jade Mountain) where she forgets the face created by the face forming flower and loses control over her transformation abilities. She is viewed as strange and treated like a monster. 
  • XL's form at birth is his truest form - the form of a nine-headed demon sea snake. That form, when known, makes him hated, targeted and reviled by many. As a nine-headed snake demon, XL is often viewed as strange and treated like a monster. XL didn't want XY to see his true form. 
• Seems Like True Form, But Isn't Really
  • Shortly after her birth, XY's parents use the face forming flower to change her form. That form feels like a true form to XY and almost everyone around her, but in reality it isn't. 
  • Early in his life, XL gains the ability to take on a white-haired humanoid form. That form feels like a true form, but it's not his truest form or his freest form.
• False Identity = Freest Form
  • Later on in life, XY (a young woman) transforms into the form of a young man and takes on the false identity of Wen Xiao Liu. In that form, she is safer and freer than at any other time in her life.
  • Later on in life, XL (a demon) takes on the false identity of FFB (a deity). In that form, he is safer and freer than at any other time in his life. 

XY was born with her true face, but then for the next 150 years (approximately) of her life from infancy to the time when she was sent to Jade Mountain and for the 70 years that she spent on Jade Mountain before running away, her face was a fake one created by the face forming flower implanted in her by her parents to protect her. XY's true face had to be hidden in order to keep her safe from those who hated her ruthless father. In those first ~150 years XY lived on Five Gods Mountain in Gao Xing and on Xuan Yuan Mountain in Xuan Yuan. Both were extremely dangerous places where many members of each royal family killed each other. After leaving Five Gods Mountain and moving to Xuan Yuan Mountain, XY lived with CX for a short time. And he would become the person she was most loyal to. They weren't brother and sister, but they called each other brother and sister. They pledged to be loyal to each other for their whole lives. But then XY was sent away to the isolated, deathly quiet, and prison-like Jade Mountain where she stayed for 70 years, and CX didn't come for her. After running away from Jade Mountain (where she was safe) XY lived alone for approximately 20 years. First she was on the run, and then she settled into a lonely but not-too-difficult existence in the mountains. Then she was captured by the nine-tailed fox and kept in a cage for 30 years. On Jade Mountain, XY memorized the Sheng Nong Herb Manual and Jiu Liu Poison Manual. While she was caged by the nine-tailed fox, XY used that knowledge to develop poisons in order to take the nine-tailed fox down. 

XL was born from an egg and initially only existed in his true form: that of a nine-headed sea snake demon. Somehow (presumably through training and cultivation), he eventually gained his white-haired human form. In that form, he ended up in the death match arena, an extremely dangerous place where demons were forced to fight to the death. When he escaped from that place, XL was saved by Gong Gong. Although he only spent a short amount of time with Gong Gong at that point, Gong Gong saved XL's life, setting things up so that he would later become the person that XL was most loyal to. They weren't father and son, but they would end up calling each other father and son. When XL returned to Gong Gong, he became loyal to Gong Gong for his whole life. But befoe that XL ran away to the isolated and deathly quiet far north for his own survival, and he stayed there for over one hundred years. While he was there, he used the healing technique that Gong Gong taught him to develop his own fighting style.

After escaping from the nine-tailed fox (and killing him and taking his mirror), XY wandered across Xuan Yuan for 60 years and even visited the far north. She took on the false identity of Wen Xiao Liu (a man rather than a woman), but she was more free at that time than she was at any other point in her life. At some point during that time she visited a brothel and spent five years in a casino. At the end of those 60 years, XY decided to settle in QS town and opened up a fertility clinic and started taking in misfit companions who needed her. 

After leaving the far north (and killing FFB and consuming his spiritual power), XL took on the identity of FFB (a deity rather than a demon). He spent approximately 100 years living as FFB with no other ties. He spent the first four years of that time caring for FFB's mother. We don't know much about how he spent the rest of his time, but he definitely would have visited brothels and casinos and presumably lived quite freely. At the end of those 100 years, Sheng Nong was conquered by Xuan Yuan and XL went to Gong Gong (the person he would end up being loyal to) in his white-haired, humanoid demon form. Gong Gong's remnant army needed XL (the novel specifies that they would not have lasted so long without him) and they were based outside of QS town. 

After joining the remnant army, XL often chose to wear a mask when he is around outsiders to protect his dual identity as XL and FFB. When he is FFB, he keeps his real face and dyes his hair instead of transforming.

After XY regains her true face and form (which she hadn't had since she was an infant) and takes on the identity of Gao Xing's eldest princess, XY often chooses to wear a veiled hat around outsiders. When XY lost the ability to use the face forming flower to transform herself, she wasn't disappointed. She preferred to keep her real face and didn't want to transform any more. 

When XY and FFB become companions, XY feels like she is WXL again, just in women's clothing. When they are together at that point, it's almost like they are back to being the freest version of themselves. 

When XY first encountered FFB and wondered if he was XL, she was disappointed at the thought that she might have seen one of XL's many false faces instead of XL's true face. She wonders if XL might be someone like her, a person who wants to have a true self and a person who isn't interested in false transformations. 

In chapter 26, XL's ability to feel XY's heartache makes her feel like her heart was stripped naked and exposed to XL for him to observe. She felt frustrated and embarrassed.

In chapter 43, XL tells XY not to look when he transforms into his true demon form, but XY can't help herself and peeks. XL was angry and tried to run away from XY as soon as he brought her safely to shore.

XY often smiles to mask her pain, and pretends to be happy and unaffected when she is deeply affected.  

XL often hides his feelings behind a blank expression and pretends to be cold and emotionless. 

I've gotten a bit off track here... but there are definitely some interesting parallels. 

 H19279:

Last, about the similarity between XL and XY in this aspect, Tong Hua used the same poem in chapter 12 (when XY restored her original face) and 17 for the chapter titles (different sentences). Chapter 17 is when FFB revealed his identity as XL. The poem was about a person searching another one in the mist, going up and down the river. She knew that one was somewhere in the water but still couldn’t find him/her. It fitted well for both XY (seeking her own face, identity) and her seek for XL

Ooh nice tidbit!

 liddi:

Actually, the word 喜欢 can mean both "like" or "love", depending on how the word is used.

To put in context, when her mother A Heng openly declared her love for Chi Chen in front of the entire army just before the final battle, she said:

 “我已经喜欢赤宸好几百年了!"
"I have loved Chi Chen for several hundred years!"

So the usage of the word 喜欢 here does not necessarily mean "like", but should mean "love".

Is this "xi huan" vs "ai" again? Are there any reasons why "ai" rarely gets used, liddi? And between the two, which one is stronger/more powerful? 

This is the same thing with similar Vietnamese words. And I'm wondering if the explanation is similar.

 Kokuto:

I've said this elsewhere. None of the men who cared for XY liked Jing, because he was practically married when he was romancing XY -- and then never could get out of it.

Were they aware of the 15-year promise thing?

I can't imagine any of Xiao Yao's family members could look at the position that Jing placed Xiao Yao in - as the other woman (and she willingly went along with it) and think highly of him. This is not the conduct of an "honourable man". If we were in the world of Jane Austen, Mr Darcy would have called for a duel at dawn and taught that fox a lesson :-)

It's interesting that Jing has this wonderful, lofty reputation/tile, but his conducts are often not exactly honorable. In contrast, Xiang Liu who has an awful reputation is the one that act honorably.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Is this "xi huan" vs "ai" again? Are there any reasons why "ai" rarely gets used, liddi? And between the two, which one is stronger/more powerful? 

For me, 喜欢 always feel like something young lovers would say to the person they have a crush on. The impression I get is more of a feeling, a giddy rush of emotion at that moment in time. It does not give me a sense of security, an assurance of permanence. 

On the other hand, 爱 ai is the stronger word - it represents commitment. In my mind, when someone says "我爱你", the implications are far-reaching, because the word is not to be easily bandied about. It is a deliberate promise of a commitment that should last a lifetime.

However, when the novel uses 喜欢 in a context that describes a love that has lasted hundreds of years, I am inclined to see that 喜欢 in this case is being used interchangeably with 爱.

 liddi:

For me, 喜欢 always feel like something young lovers would say to the person they have a crush on. The impression I get is more of a feeling, a giddy rush of emotion at that moment in time. It does not give me a sense of security, an assurance of permanence. 

On the other hand, 爱 ai is the stronger word - it represents commitment. In my mind, when someone says "我爱你", the implications are far-reaching, because the word is not to be easily bandied about. It is a deliberate promise of a commitment that should last a lifetime.

However, when the novel uses 喜欢 in a context that describes a love that has lasted hundreds of years, I am inclined to see that 喜欢 in this case is being used interchangeably with 爱.

两个“喜欢小夭”vs 一个“一生挚爱小夭”，小夭的描述中唯一提到的爱情写给“对相柳有情”。仔细看这一张图，没一句废话。

@liddi,It's about character diagrams.
I used automatic translation from Google, it said that 2 people like Xiaoyao and 1 person loves Xiaoyao. Is google translation right or wrong.In several articles I read about character diagrams, they also said that 2 people like Xiaoyao and one person loves Xiaoyao.I don't know Mandarin, but I'm curious..

 liddi:

For me, 喜欢 always feel like something young lovers would say to the person they have a crush on. The impression I get is more of a feeling, a giddy rush of emotion at that moment in time. It does not give me a sense of security, an assurance of permanence. 

On the other hand, 爱 ai is the stronger word - it represents commitment. In my mind, when someone says "我爱你", the implications are far-reaching, because the word is not to be easily bandied about. It is a deliberate promise of a commitment that should last a lifetime.

However, when the novel uses 喜欢 in a context that describes a love that has lasted hundreds of years, I am inclined to see that 喜欢 in this case is being used interchangeably with 爱.

xihuan covers quite wide spectrum of feeling: from fond of, like to love.

However i doubt if XY meaned love in this context. If i remember correctly Jing had never said “love” to her either. they always used indirect phrase for that. it was ancient time, people didn’t say or mean “love” that easily. Moreover with regard to XY’s attitude in the earlier period, and her personality, it wouldn’t be such easy to mean love

 AH :

he eventually gained his white-haired human form. In that form, he ended up in the death match arena, an extremely dangerous place where demons were forced to fight to the death.

 liddi:

That is an interesting thought. Was Xiang Liu always white haired in his human form, since he cultivated from his nine-headed white snake demon form? The drama had  him as a dark-haired child during his time in the death match arena. I always felt that that was a deliberate decision on the production team's part to blur the lines between which child was being mercilessly whipped, until we see the raw meat and the red glowing eyes. However, it then does not match with what Xiang Liu's true form was meant to be.

Yes, I thought it was a bit odd that they gave humanoid-child!XL black hair in the drama, and I also thought that it was probably a stylistic choice to emphasize the similarity between young!XY and young!XL and (you put it well) to initially blur the lines between them visually.

Since the hair colour that Lie Yang and Sir Bi had from their earliest humanoid forms always matched the colouring of their true demon forms (a white, phoenix-like bird and a black winged fox), I assumed it would be the same for XL in the novel. Admittedly, two data points is a pretty small sample size.

And the same rule might not apply to nine-tailed fox tail colour correlating with hair colour. The tail that XY had in childhood from the nine-tailed fox that held her captive was described as white. I don't recall his hair colour being described, so I always assumed it was black. The 10,000 year old fox tails that XY uses as puppets were also described as white. I don't recall the colour of TSJ's tails being described in the novel.

 liddi:

I really need to drag myself away from Lost You Forever, and read Once Promised. One day...

If you ever find yourself inclined to translate any of it, I would be very, very keen to read those translations! ^^