Fan Fiction Thread for Lost You Forever

 Kokuto:

I haven't read the novels, but just finished watching both the Chinese and Netflix versions.

 Kokuto:

The Cdrama version is better with 30 episodes for the first book. The Netflix version has more humor (sort of) and gore and moves at a breakneck speed -- especially given it actually covers all of the 1st book and parts of the 2nd book -- in EIGHT episodes.

 Kokuto:

I'm really not sure why Netflix changed what the did, character wise or location -- it didn't improve anything and diminished the main characters in the CDrama version, especially Ye Wen Jie. There's only one character that's better in the Netflix version -- the leader of the planetary defense forces, who was given short shrift in the CDrama version. Though the European actors in the Cdrama version were universally bad, which is usual.

The Netflix version was not as creepy as the CDrama, nor did it have the awesome music.

 Kokuto:

I can't say what is more realistic, but I felt the Cdrama was more effective to explain Ye Wen Jie's issues. Netflix was brutal, but it was quick and accidental, and not quite as effective for me. The Cdrama was Orwellian, and dragged out the effect of her father's downfall. In the Netflix drama he goes out heroically, and in the Cdrama, it was humiliating and emasculating and said alot about the era / people, as well as impacted Ye Wen Jie more realistically. Of course, others may feel the brutality of the Netflix version was more realistic.

 Kokuto:

I agree, the VR equipment was better in the Netflix version. I'm kind of torn about the game. The CGI game got old after a while and was used quite a bit. The Netflix version didn't bother with CGI characters, which I liked better -- but I don't think it worked to convey the game idea as well.

 Kokuto:

I heard, I think on Avenue X, that Benedict Wong actually looks more like the book detective, though he didn't have as much to do. I don't know if they matched the book, but I thought both of them did a great job in the CDrama. They made a good pair with different personalities that played well off each other.

Ye Wen Jie's past is revealed in flashbacks that are spread throughout as flashbacks, revealed in layers, like an onion, as Wang Mio and Shi Qiang discover it or we as viewers need it to understand what is going on. The actresses playing her, both in the past and present, are much better, than the Netflix actress, IMO.

 Kokuto:

I'm not sure what is in the novel, but given this, I think you will like the CDrama version better. It also ties into her relationships and actions at Red Coast Base, as there's a connection there also, which I'm not sure is in the book or not. The reveal of the family betrayal is horrifyingly Orwellian. And I think that plays into the overwhelming and oppressive dark vibe of the show.

 Kokuto:

To be honest, I was surprised that we got something that was negative about Chinese history. I don't know enough about Chinese history to speak knowledgeably about this, but I think all of that and the Chinese setting works so much better for the encounter with the Trisolarians and their society, that Netflix's change to London just doesn't get. I can't explain it clearly, but there's definitely a connection.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on both dramas Kokuto!

 ZYHLJ:

@AH


Thinking of Xiang Liu's life in the military camp, you convinced me :-). I even thought that he might be able to do needlework

My father and grandfather know how to sew thanks to their military service. Definitely seems like something that XL could have picked up during his time with the army. In theory he could have used his powers to address any needlework needs, but since he preferred to dye his hair rather than transform it and since the robe-colour-changing magic he demonstrated was only temporary, maybe he would prefer to actually do the needlework instead of using his powers?

 ZYHLJ:

Speaking of Xiao Yao and Jing going to folk life and taking Miao Pu with them, I also find it a bit strange. If she was going with them as a friend, who would live with their friend and her husband? She would probably still be their servant, and she needed to serve everything from that day on. Poor Miao Pu, she could have went on with comfortable life in the palace. Does anyone care about her thoughts?

Miao Pu really seemed like she wanted to go with XY and I'm glad that XY had some company other than just TSJ. But it does seem like a crutch in some ways. TSJ "gave up" (chose not to reclaim) his status and servants, but XY basically kept her maid and bodyguard. Hold overs from her princess status that make XY less independent.

 liddi:

2 days ago
 plor20:
Maoqiu encountered him one fateful day as he was personally delivering a pair of delicate silver hairpins to Tu Shan Zhen's new bride.
Looks like Tushan Zhen is accumulating a harem to rival Cang Xuan's! Is it to cement familial ties with all the powerful clans which would be beneficial to the Tushan business network? Or does he take after his father, with an eye for the ladies?

 AH :

 plor20:
Maoqiu encountered him one fateful day as he was personally delivering a pair of delicate silver hairpins to Tu Shan Zhen's new bride. Maoqiu doesn't remember why, but he had an urge to eat a bowl of noodles, and just so happened to see Lao Ping’s stall. While eating and pondering how he had lost count of how many women Tu Shan Zhen had taken in
That's an unexpected relationship. Is TSZ helping these women? Or being licentious?

 liddi:

 AH :
Is TSZ helping these women?
Oh - that scenario didn't occur to me, which seems quite plausible too. 

The possibility that TSZ might be marrying all those women for business reasons (similar to CX marrying his harem for political reasons) didn't occur to me and it really should have given CX's example. I guess I just figured TSZ wouldn't have all that much need to gain advantages through so many marriages. 

 plor20:

AH :
That's an unexpected relationship. Is TSZ helping these women? Or being licentious?
Unfortunately, I didn't delve into TSZ life...so I don't have much to say about it. In my mind, I had imagine him having fulfillment issues-where he can have all kinds of luxuries, including the beauties of DaHuang.

I see. More on the licentious side then. 

Even if you haven't established, in your own mind, firm thoughts on why he would be that way, it's interesting to speculate. His bio parents did awful things. His bio dad tortured his bio uncle / adoptive father for years (I wonder how much TSZ knew about that?). His bio parents conspired to trick his bio uncle / adoptive father into thinking that he was his bio uncle / adoptive father's bio son, ruining his bio uncle / adoptive father's chances of being with the woman he loved at the time. His bio dad tried to kill his bio uncle / adoptive father (and TSZ thought he succeeded for 7 years) and succeeded in killing his bio mother (in multiple ways), and his bio mother killed his bio father. Then his bio uncle / adoptive father turned out to be alive but didn't come back and only left him a letter. Perhaps TSZ would have issues trusting people and forming meaningful relationships - the kind that would make for a strong husband-wife dynamic. And maybe he would try to fill the holes in his life left by a lack of deep and secure relationships with superficial pleasures, including many women?

 liddi:

Incidentally, I know that existing translations refer to them as Li Jie, but the correct name has always been 离戎 Lirong, from the 2013 edition to the 2023 publication.

Oh interesting. I thought it must have been one of the many name changes. Do you think it was just a mistake then?

 liddi:

Thank you for the kind words. Nonetheless, regardless of text being open to interpretation, ultimately, the reader's interpretation should either be in line with the author's vision or have the author's stamp of approval, since the author is the creator of that [part of the] universe, and would know best what was intended to be conveyed. It is quite mind-boggling when we see fans so entrenched in their own interpretations to the extent of actually accusing authors of not knowing their own works.

Hmm. I sort of agree and sort of disagree. 

I do think it's bizarre to accuse an author of not knowing or understanding their own work. And I do think an author's intended meaning for their work carries a lot of weight and is interesting to understand. I also think that some aspects of fictional stories are presented as facts (within the narrative) that are not open to interpretation, and any purported interpretation that contradicts those "facts" is not canon-compliant. Which means that it can function as a head-canon, but it is otherwise not (in my view) a valid interpretation of the original work.

But my views are also informed by Death of the Author and Tolkien's comments about Applicability. 

If a reader comes up with an interpretation of a fictional written work that does not contradict the facts presented within the work (that condition is important), I think that interpretation is valid even if it differs from the author's own interpretation or does not have the author's seal of approval. 

IMO, a written work doesn't have a single interpretation that is the one true "correct" interpretation. A work can have a specific interpretation that is the most obvious and popular interpretation, but I don't think that necessarily makes other interpretations "wrong". And if the author is willing and able to explain their intentions and interpretation of their work, that interpretation will probably be very compelling and carry a lot of weight, but I would view it as the author's interpretation or intention, rather than the one true "correct" interpretation. And if someone else came up with a different interpretation that was canon-compliant I would consider both interpretations to be valid. 

Sometimes a reader's interpretation can be really out there. Like the various fan theories that involve XL having sex with XY during the events of the novel. To the extent that those theories do not work because of facts that are present in the text, I consider those interpretations to be invalid. But to the extant that any of those theories might work without contradicting the facts presented in the text, I don't think those theories are invalid. I just view them as theories / interpretations that I do not personally subscribe to. They are not my interpretation. 

The same concept applies in other contexts. If a person walks into a gallery, sees a painting, and draws a certain interpretation of that painting, I don't think that interpretation is "wrong" if it differs from the artist's interpretation of the work (or my own interpretation). It would probably be interesting to know the author's interpretation, but if it was provided I would consider it to be one of potentially many valid interpretations. 

I think a writer can say "that was not my intent" or "that's not how I imagined or interpreted it" in response to other people's interpretations of their fictional stories, but if the interpretation does not contradict the "facts" of the work, I don't think the author can really say that the interpretation is "wrong". That said, if the reader claims that their interpretation reflects the author's intent or interpretations, the author can definitely correct them if that's not the case. And if a reader presents their interpretation as unassailable fact or as the only valid interpretation, I would generally question that. 

If the story is not fictional, and especially if the story is autobiographical, then the circumstances would be a bit different, because there would be objective facts that are part of the story in real life that might not be expressly stated within the written work. 

And this is getting a bit long, but I think it's also worth considering that interpretations can relate to different aspects of a work, like "facts" (e.g., Chi You's origin and what he was) or explanations (e.g., why a character chose to do something) that are not directly provided within the work or (on a more meta level) the meaning of all or a particular aspect of a work. 

And while an author might sometimes have a very clear intended interpretation of their work (in which case, it may make sense for some readers to try to interpret their work in accordance with what that intended interpretation would be, to the greatest extent possible), there are also time when authors intentionally create works that could have multiple interpretations, or they decide to be silent about something because they didn't decide on a particular interpretation or don't feel that there should be one correct interpretation. 

To look at a very granular aspect of my fic as an example, I didn't mention who Prince Hai's parents or grandparents were in the fic. As I mentioned in the FAQs, I didn't firmly decide on who he was exactly, but I figured that he would probably be CX's grandson, and not related to Xing Yue or Ah Nian. And as I mentioned in the comments, if a reader decided to interpret Hai as being Ah Nian's son or grandson, that would be perfectly valid. If they came up with an interpretation where Hai wasn't related to Cang Xuan at all, on the other hand, that wouldn't make sense given that he was a prince. So I would view that interpretation as invalid unless they could come up with a canon-compliant explanation for how he could be a prince and not be related to Cang Xuan. 

Chapter Seven: Lost Soul

Maoqiu had always preferred to travel light. In a cloth bundle containing a magical box that held his jewelry tools, he carefully placed the azalea flower pot in. Wrapping a set of clothes for cushion, he tied the bundle across his shoulder. He found Lao Ping in the kitchen and poured him a cup of wine. The pair drank silently, not saying a word, lest there were people listening. In their silence, they bid farewell, and Lao Ping knows that the next time they meet will be when Maoqiu makes an offering to his ancestral tablet.

As expected, Maoqiu left Qingqiu under the guise of heading towards Chiusiu to prepare a silver necklace to the fourth princess, who would be turning two hundred and fifty years old and had demanded to meet the famed jeweler. Before leaving, Maoqiu had made arrangements to have the jewelry sent to Chiusiu with a letter of regret that he had returned to Jiuli when the time came in six months. Maoqiu left without looking back, and about a day's journey towards Chiusiu, he turned to the southwest, opting to cross through the forests and mountains, carefully camouflaging his trail. It would take several months on foot, but it was still safer than flying there in his true form.

Maoqiu had made a habit of dying his hair black, instead of using transformation, when he dealt with the clans, a habit he’d picked up from Master Xiang Liu, so then he came to a small river, he washed the dye immediately and changed into his indigo Jiuli robes with brightly embroidery and applique. On their first night under the moon, Maoqiu revealed his pale yellow hair for the first time in centuries. After he finished setting up camp, Maoqiu took the azaleas pot and stared at the butterfly cocoon. 

“Fang Feng Wuming, what have you done?” He said out loud. After receiving no snarky response, Maoqiu took a small stick and poked lightly at the cocoon. “You are so annoying. I don’t think I have ever met someone so annoying in my life.” He set the pot down next to him and then leaned back against a tree. He grabbed his wine gourd and took a sip of wine. “I don’t normally drink wine, but lately, all I can think about is drowning in it.” Maoqiu wasn’t very talkative either, but there was always a first time for everything.

“I have vowed that I will never waste time on a useless woman. Perhaps, I should have also vowed to not be partial to an annoying person.” Maoqiu said as he drank his wine and smirked in disbelief. “Wuming, sometime after I transformed into my human form, I declared that if I ever fell in love with a useless woman, I would shave my hair off, head to Jade Mountain, and become a recluse.” He glanced at the white cocoon and noticed the shape shift a little. Maoqiu chuckled. “I am glad you are not useless…” Maoqiu trailed off, unable to finish his train of thought.

After several months, Maoqiu reached Jiuli and quietly went back to pay respect to his jewelry teacher’s family. It had been centuries since he had been back, and the family was very happy to receive him. Over the years, Maoqiu had frequently sent back gifts for the family to pay off the great clans to avoid having to send their beloved daughters and sons off into servitude. In exchange, the family kept his hut clean and free of decay, awaiting the day he would return.

Upon his arrival, he asked to see the shaman king and inquired how he would be able to get an audience. It took several weeks of giving favors before the family’s patriarch, Li Qian, finally secured a meeting with the shaman king for Maoqiu. Maoqiu wasn't sure if the shaman king would be able to help him, but he must know a thing or two about mysterious bugs. And Wuming has been nothing less than mysterious, as well as surrounded by all kinds of bugs, and now he is even encased in a cocoon!

The shaman king’s home was a day's walk in the next village. Li Qian accompanying him, they both walked across the rugged terrain, on a narrow path, passing rice terraces and bamboo groves. “Master Yin, if you don't mind me asking, it's not really my place to be asking…but out of curiosity, might you need to see the shaman in such haste?” Li Qian was several generations after Maoqiu's teacher, but he could still see much of his teacher’s features and demeanor in him.

“My student contracted a weird disease and is now encased in a cocoon,” Maoqiu lied. “I would like to ask if the shaman might know something.”

“I see.” With that, for the rest of the trip, Maoqiu deterred the conversation towards his family and asked him to tell him about everything that's happened over the centuries, to which Maoqiu listened attentively.

The shaman king’s hut is a simple one, standing at the edge of Jiuli overlooking the peach blossom orchard. In the years that Maoqiu lived in Jiuli, learning jewelry making, he never thought to venture here. Actually, other than refining his skills, Maoqiu didn’t bother to make many connections except for honoring and paying respect to his teacher’s family. He kept to himself most of the time, and when he fully healed, he bid farewell to his teacher and took his skills back to the Central Plains. When he wasn’t searching for Xiling Xiao Yao, he roamed aimlessly and enjoyed life under the open sky.

Maoqiu didn't learn much from the shaman except for one important piece of information. Fang Feng Wuming had lost his soul and that the body in the cocoon is just a shell. No one left in Jiuli has the knowledge or powers to do a soul calling ceremony, so all Maoqiu could do was wait for the soul to find its way back. The body is alive and being nursed by the cocoon so no harm will come to the body, but without a soul, it will remain in a coma. A part of Maoqiu actually felt a sense of relief; maybe if Wuming sleeps for long enough, the events that led to him being emancipated would have died down and would soon become a mystery of the past. The other part of him was filled with yearning and worry. In the end, Maoqiu settled back in Jiuli but instead of making jewelry, he spent his days tending the azaleas and drinking wine.

Lost soul (poob plig) is Hmong/Miao belief that a living person had lost thier soul. When a person loses their soul, it is cause for illness. Usually when this happens, a soul calling (hu plig) ceremony would be needed to call a person soul back in order to heal.

 AH :

IMO, a written work doesn't have a single interpretation that is the one true "correct" interpretation. A work can have a specific interpretation that is the most obvious and popular interpretation, but I don't think that necessarily makes other interpretations "wrong". And if the author is willing and able to explain their intentions and interpretation of their work, that interpretation will probably be very compelling and carry a lot of weight, but I would view it as the author's interpretation or intention, rather than the one true "correct" interpretation. And if someone else came up with a different interpretation that was canon-compliant I would consider both interpretations to be valid. 

Thank you very much for elaborating your thoughts! I fully agree that unless specifically spelled out by the author, the text is open for interpretation. Regardless, any interpretation should still be in line with what is canon, since those are building blocks which the reader is given to base their theories upon. 

To me, unless the author is intentionally vague to allow for other theories, what the author determines should be the interpretation readers would take away, except in cases where the text fails to convey it sufficiently. From the standpoint of a reader, if an author specifically stated the intent of the work which differs from my own interpretations, I would actually revisit the work first to see what I might have missed during the course of my reading. In some cases, perhaps the attempt to be too vague detracted from the author's ability to convey the intent. In other cases, perhaps the reader tried too hard to impose their own ideas, hopes and values (especially if coming from a different cultural background) and fails to take into account the context of the work in question. Yet another possibility is that the reader failed to read between the lines. 

Definitely, there can be more than one acceptable interpretation as long as it is within the confines of what is canon - be it in events or characters. Like you said, one may subscribe to or disagree with those interpretations, but it does not make it wrong if it is canon-compliant. Nonetheless, if it is something that actually violates the core of the characters and the universe within which it is framed, I would be hard pressed to say that it is not wrong.

On a lighter note, to use a very simplified example. Many years ago, while on the topic of incongruous book covers which failed to reflect her actual books, I mentioned to Louise Cooper that having a Fabio-lookalike on the cover of The Pretender from her Chaos Gate trilogy was so misleading, since it looked nothing like the gaunt, mercurial, exquisitely cruel deity that was meant to be portrayed. 

This was no mortal man; the chiselled features, beautiful yet cruel mouth, tall, graceful frame, were too perfect to have any true humanity. 
-- The Initiate, Book One of the Time Master trilogy

His hair was gold. Molten gold, on fire with an inner radiance that lit the Marble Hall as brilliantly as a midsummer sunrise. But the face framed by the hair, and the form he had chosen, were human. He was tall, spare; cheekbones almost gaunt above the smiling, thin-lipped mouth.
-- Star Ascendant, Book One of the Star Shadow trilogy

These were her words: "I hate to break it to you, Liddi, but it was Fabio on the cover. The publishers thought that having him there would help with book sales." 

Now, that, I can say unequivocally, is wrong. 

 plor20:

In their silence, they bid farewell, and Lao Ping knows that the next time they meet will be when Maoqiu makes an offering to his ancestral tablet.

This actually choked me up, and reminds us just how transient these ties are, especially to those who are left behind...  

 plor20:

“Wuming, sometime after I transformed into my human form, I declared that if I ever fell in love with a useless woman, I would shave my hair off, head to Jade Mountain, and become a recluse.”

LOL! Why shave his head? Jade Mountain is not a monastery. But it sounds like a great idea. He can quarrel with Lie Yang or get drunk with Sir Bi.

 plor20:

Upon his arrival, he asked to see the witch doctor and inquired how he would be able to get an audience.

Is the witch doctor the equivalent of the 巫王 Shaman King? It is interesting that you call him a witch doctor... I did not like the term "voodoo" but thought that shaman was closer to what I had in mind. Are they called witch doctors in Hmong culture?

 plor20:

Fang Feng Wuming had lost his soul and that the body in the cocoon is just a shell.

How did he lose his soul? He still appeared very lucid despite being wounded before he transformed into a cocoon. Did he seal his consciousness and ended up in a state of limbo, similar to Xiao Yao after the Peach Forest assassination? 

 plor20:

Lost soul (poob plig) is Hmong/Miao belief that a living person had lost thier soul. When a person loses their soul, it is cause for illness. Usually when this happens, a soul calling (hu plig) ceremony would be needed to call a person soul back in order to heal.

Thank you for the footnotes! Off the top of my head, I can't recall a similar term for lost soul in Chinese - will share if it comes to me. 招魂 Soul summoning is a shamanistic ceremony done for those who are deceased especially in foreign lands, and their spirits cannot find their way home. This sounds different from the Hmong tradition of calling a soul back into a person whose physical body is still alive but the soul is lost.