Kelekat

I've watched this several times now and I just can't get over how the FL used the way the SML treated her (during the time the ML has been away for 6 months mind you) as her method of explaining to the ML her issues with they way he treats her and why she felt insecure about her relationship with him. What other outcome could there be but for him to think that she should be with the other guy? Not only did she tell him how much better the SML had been treating her but also shed some light on much time she'd been spending with him in the ML's absence AND. No matter what, she came across like she was closer with another guy than almost any boyfriend would be comfortable with. Even though she said they weren't lovers she literally said he was important to her and she wouldn't keep her distance. THEN she proceeded to compare the two men...and she's surprised at the outcome? The SML is someone she had literally eloped with as a teenager! What man would want to continue being in a relationship with her after hearing all that? Even if he'd trusted her before and was just upset, after hearing everything she said...really?

On top of that she wanted him to continue to trust her after saying all that, yet continued showing no faith in him whatsoever. Okay so he was too busy while he was away to respond to her messages while he was away - he could have made time to reach out every once in a while but didn't (even if there's a time difference); he's an ass for that but honestly with as hard he had to have been working I kind of get it. He also never should have stood her up for the wedding or at least should have told her he could no longer make it - again, asshole. Don't get me wrong, I hated the way he handled things with his very shitty bosses. He was a coward and weak and they needed to be sued (he could have gotten the evidence to do it; but this wasn't that kind of drama). However SHE was very much in the wrong with the way she handled that particular fight.

I was angry at first that he had the gall to be mad at her when he'd shown up with that other woman all over him but she completely lost my support when she said all that about how well the SML treated her compared to him and how she wouldn't give him up. She was right that the ML had been a terrible boyfriend. Terrible. But to use the way another man treats you to make your point was just begging to be dumped. If she was so unhappy with the ML and so obviously happier with the SML then it's obvious who she should be with. That's my thought and that would have been the ML's thoughts too.

I tried dramacool yesterday but from episode 4 the timing of the subs is way off so it's very difficult to follow what's actually happening.

DAMN! This is based on a true story!

The man is stunningly gorgeous and can act his ass off.

Well there's no point in trying to finish this. I can tell a whole lot is happening now but I can't follow any of it so guess I'll have to drop it midway (ep 4). Or at least put it on hold until I can find better subs.

Just great. Right as this seemed like it was beginning to get interesting the subs get all wonky - the timing is way off so nothing's making any sense. Just great.

Holy shit, wow! Just when I was thinking, "jeez I thought the brother was a good-for-nothing but he's got nothing on his mom," she goes and really shows her true colors! WOW wow wow! She tried to make the daughter stay just so she'd continue to keep the goddamn house clean?! What-in-everloving-F@CK! She's making her pay back all of her tuition because she refused to remain a free maid! OMG. Just when I think these dramas can't shock me more they come up with characters like this.

Wait why has no one even mentioned that there's a gay character in this too! Nice! I'm loving this little spin they threw in!

I LOVE how he easily just came out and said it and also how completely accepting the girl's father was. Yes this should be the norm by now but it's still not often the case so this was really refreshing!

I'm midway through the 2nd episode and I'm starting to get frustrated with the pacing of the drama. I feel like I still don't know what direction they're trying to take with the story. Having only 8 episodes in all to work with I feel like things should be further developed by now.

I'm curious as to why the parents seem to only call the ML and not the FL though...

You know. Right now the incest aspect of this story isn't really what's captured my attention.

There IS one thing I'm beginning to find concerning about how frequently it's depicted in Japanese dramas is how immoral, jaded and vapid female bullies can be. I've seen more than once where girls instigate or lure other girls into various sex crimes or dangerous activity (it's almost always minors), knowing full well what the repercussions would be to their newly acquired victim.

It's concerning because we all know there's often a level of realism portrayed in these dramas. It's often how we learn about the various differences between cultures. We know from media that Asian (and African) culture as a whole is very far behind Europe and the West in terms of women's rights and how women are usually on the losing end in cases involving sex crimes. Victims are still more often than not further victimized by the public who turns around and blames and shames them. Men continue with their repulsive behavior because they know public sentiment will let them get away with it. The woman always loses - isn't that what they literally tell their victims to keep the quiet and ashamed? This isn't to say this nastiness doesn't happen in the aforementioned countries of course. Just not on the same scale whatsoever.

Similarly, I just watched some Japanese movie I can barely remember where a woman was being beaten by her man in an alley and it was loud and easily heard by passersby, however no one stopped to help her. In fact couples hurried away and and the lead character (a man) in the story just watched and made eye contact with the woman before watching her being knocked practically unconscious then dragged away by her hair. I remember watching another Korean drama a while back where a man was beating his woman in the street and when another man tried to step in the man had the gall to get angry at him for butting in. Other passersby had been doing the same hurrying-away thing too and had made comments along the lines about minding their own business, acting like they weren't seeing what was happening.

Now we know that happens everywhere in the world but it's also a fact that some cultures allow and promote it more than others. Let that shit happen in the streets in the US and see how it plays out. It wouldn't be pretty. Not only the abuser but also for those standing by watching and doing nothing. Rightfully so.

Similarly, I often see if Asian dramas women becoming angry at men who help them when they're being sexually harassed at work. Again it's extremely common in Japanese dramas in particular (literally seen in romcoms, which is crazy!) but it's common in Korean dramas as well and maybe slightly less common - but still present - in Chinese dramas as well. They get angry that the men stopped the abuser. I literally feel like the women react negatively towards their saviors every single time. [Kind of along the lines of when a girl is told her boyfriend is cheating on her and instead of being grateful to the person for making them aware they blame them instead for ruining their relationship. You know that bullshit logic we've all seen play out throughout the centuries.]

I'm bringing all this up to illuminate a difference in mindset of different cultures.

Here is the US rapists are considered filth and bottom-feeders. But a woman setting things in motion for another woman to be raped...man, she is no better than the filth beneath a rapist's feet.

I'm becoming concerned that this whole thing with women setting up other women to become victims of sex crimes is actually a real thing in Japan; a horrible side effect of long-standing inferiority complex in their women. It's like they accept the belief that it's their fault they were raped, assaulted, harassed or abused so they feel no qualms in using rape as a tool to hurt other women.

I don't really see this particular behavior happening in Korean dramas (not that I can recall) and I definitely don't recall seeing it in any Chinese dramas whatsoever.

I deeply, sincerely, genuinely from my soul hope like hell that that aspect of Japanese drama depictions isn't rooted in any sort of reality surrounding their culture.

Just started watching and just like my reaction to the octopus was, "eewwwwwww!" My reaction to the FL saying she was in love with her big brother was also, "eewwwwwww!" LOL! Both times I was completely fascinated though. LOL! I watched he pour that octopus out like 12 times!

Feels like I'm about to watch live specimens at an aquarium but instead they're an incest couple. Yes, I'm weird. I fully acknowledge and accept that fact.

I haven't even watched the drama yet. I'm definitely curious about it but I'm baffled by the comments. Japanese dramas get so much hate.

It looks like I'm a few days late to comment on this but I wanted to try approaching your concerns from a different angle because I think you genuinely don't see how your statements are coming across. I'm trying to help you see a different perspective, not necessarily change your own viewpoint, so please keep that in mind as you read this.

I just happened to scroll and see this last comment and read up a little to see why you made that comment. I genuinely and sincerely mean you no animosity when I say this but, reading this absolutely sounded like someone saying, "I'm not racist. I have a black friend!" or "I'm not anti-gay; I have a gay friend." Your previous comments about Japan and its culture give a very different impression of some very strong feelings you hold towards Japan and the Japanese culture and society.

Just because they allow certain things to be depicted in their dramas you went on a full on tirade. You've chosen to focus only on the negative side of them choosing to freely and openly discuss certain realities of the world, that most conservative people like yourself would prefer to avoid and ignore. If solely talking about a topic is promoting it then there's really no hope for the world. However, the truth is, knowledge is power. Understanding more about such situations can help not only prevent them from happening but also help people understand one another better. Growth comes from knowledge and understanding, not avoidance. Think about it. One thing I've seen people say on here is that their parents and environment led to their behavior. Couldn't this help educate people so they don't do the same to their own children or if this is something they've experienced themselves, help them understand why?

Conversely, why are we relying on tv and media to teach us our morals? This argument about things depicted on television directly leading to increased crime rates involving those depictions has been disproven time and again. Yet for more than a century it continues to be used as a weapon to censor.

Let's go old school and think of the movie Footloose. They wouldn't allow music and dancing because of the negative influences it would have on the society. Most of us watching the movie thought such a mindset was mind-boggling or extreme, yet here we are doing the very same thing. Also, the truth is Amish believe the same so how extreme would such a drama seem to them? In fact, they'd think the outcome of the drama to be outlandish and possibly even blasphemous.

What about school shootings in America? After Columbine there was so much noise about the influence of violence in media on those kids. That shit went on for years. When, in reality, we all know that's bs.

Parents (and teachers) should be teaching kids morals, not media. So attacking media is, quite frankly, a copout.

Again, avoiding topics is what allows the evil and wrongs of the world to be perpetuated. Openly discussing and expressing them is what helps humankind learn and grow.

I hope you at least get where I'm coming from, even if you find yourself unable to agree.

You know what's funny to me? Their behavior mirrors what was commonly seen in the past when people would blatantly attack and bash gays and gay representations on television. They'd use it to spread propaganda about how such depictions were corroding our societies and all that bs.

Yet this person doesn't see the irony of their own behavior here and now simply because the object of the prejudice is different.

This is a powerful and beautiful post. For those too lazy to do it themselves, here's the full translation:


Are you unable to distinguish between reality and fiction?
Expression in creative works is free. What's wrong with dealing with pedophilia in dramas, movies, manga, anime, etc.? Is it a creation?
Japanese people can separate reality and creation.
In reality, harming young children is a problem in terms of human rights, but I don't think it's a problem because the characters in fiction are not even human.
Why can't I tell the difference?

If you can't separate reality from fiction, why don't you see a problem with the use of ``murder'' in movies, dramas, novels, and manga?
Murder is also illegal in your country, right?
Have you ever protested to the creator of a creative work, saying, ``It's impossible to kill someone!''
There are also creations that deceive people, right?
Why don't you see it as a problem?
They don't see it as a problem because the reason is that it happened in the world of imagination, not reality, right?
So why can't we think about pedophilia in the same way?

Your thoughts are full of prejudice.
I recommend that you develop the habit of thinking more calmly, objectively, and from multiple perspectives.

Wow I skimmed the responses to your post and just can't fathom... Like WHAT? It's just a damn drama. Thankfully, Japan doesn't avoid addressing risque' topics like other countries. Situations like what's depicted in the drama happens worldwide and it's naive to think otherwise. I love that Japan isn't afraid to delve in the dark side of the world. However, I also accept that more conservative people like to avoid acknowledgement of certain realities of the world and any illumination of such topics.

But to make it a thing where you bash an entire country. WOW. We wonder why there's so much blind hate in the world yet we see behavior like this and don't see a connection?? Seriously?! What you are promoting is PREJUDICE. That is a fact.

Here's a simple solution. DON'T WATCH IT IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. However, also DON'T FORCE YOUR OPINION OR VIEWPOINTS OR PREJUDICES ONTO OTHERS.

ALSO PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING THIS SITE TO PROMOTE PREJUDICE OR HATE.

Just so I'm making myself 100% clear, I fully support your post. Good of you to stand up and speak out.

DISCLAIMER: I'll be completely ignoring dumbass responses to my post so anyone feeling the urge to comment please don't waste your time. I'm sincerely saying this for your sake. You could spend that time doing something you actually as you literally won't benefit in any way from responding to me. Likes, however, are welcome. Those take all of a second. LOL!

Very well broken down arguments. I'm not sure the original poster fully got the point you were making though. Basically not all people can watch incest just as not all people can watch blood, gore and murder. So there's no point in comparing public response to both. It's not a matter of what's worse, it's a matter of individual preference for what they want to watch.

Or maybe I'm the one not fully grasping your point...

Still good arguments.

Just finished (again) and despite these complaints I still can't get over how much I actually like this drama. I really do. There's something truly endearing about it.

There definitely should have been a sequel made. With him being so "dreamy" and getting ready to go off to college while she's planning to become a hairdresser, there's a lot more story to tell to show they make it through his college years and later on to marriage. I would have really liked to see that.

I do like that avoid making that guy she started working for (the ML's friend) someone who ended up pursuing her. They kept it classy.

I'm watching this again now and I'm finding that I don't like how much they're focusing on the FL's insecurities in the relationship as a primary reason for their issues instead of the extremely shitty way the ML started treating her the moment that other girl showed up. Yes it was unintentional on his part (mostly) but there's still ways you don't behave around and with other girls when you're in a committed relationship. He also did nothing (NOTHING) to give her a sense of security and instead kept making it seem like she was the problem. I get that the timing of the return of his mother exacerbated the situation but they shouldn't have completely ignored and glossed over his bad behavior.

Now I know I end up liking him again at some point but right now (they just agreed to give each other some space and he did NOTHING to initiate reconciliation or even acknowledge that he'd been wrong for literally being caught out with another girl), at this moment, I'm seriously pissed with the ML. He did nothing to show remorse or regret, never tried to apologize (not once). He gave her up like she meant nothing.

But, even more than that, I don't like that they took the time to point out the FL's insecurities in the relationship (I get that they did so to focus on her personal growth from that point) but didn't bother to do the same for the ML. Just a few moments of reflection and reprehension of some form would have sufficed.