Noway

I guess this reply was meant for me :)

I do not argue that gesun have unique relationships for cn dramas, but was there story flawless and did they escape all the cliches? Nope. Repetitive questions about some their scenes and about the ending on this forum also show that many viewers were confused by some directing or writing decisions. It's good that you and other gesun lovers are always here to explain some things about gesun, and well, I am sometimes here to explain some things about haoyan :)

You write about Changge's falling-of-the-roof scene as an example where we can see that she already had romantic feelings for A'Sun, but for me that scene is a worst cliche of all, because they have it in every drama, and because they made Changge look as a typical awkward girl while she was fit and strong. Also, showing both of them in slow motion just because she fell and he caught her - I refuse to see it as anything but fanservice, sorry. I even wish this scene didn't exist. It's again, as if cn creators can't think of any other situation where the couple can show some affection but when man rescues woman. I like gesun scene in the Temple so much more!!! Probably one of my top-5 their scenes. It's again, a rescue scene, but he asks if she can still fight, and then they fight together and that's so epic! and this question proves that he considers her strong and equal, and that's so hot.

As for Mu Jin explaining everything to Changge - I was a bit disappointed with that too, as again creators did something typical instead of making it unique. I wanted her to see by herself that A'Sun was not an enemy and wanted nothing but good for her, and I think they could have done it without Mu Jin interference.

Also, you write that "Leyan will be the ideal damsel in distress, and using the typical hero-saves-the damsel trope would have been the fastest way to write the romance between her and Hao Do", but in fact this damsel went through all hardships by herself, and when Hao Du found her, it was not epic at all, a very sad scene actually. She didn't fell in love with him immediately, it just helped her to see, that he was not that cold and emotionless. Later on, he supported her several times, but it wasn't neither helping someone weak nor rescuing a helpless woman, in fact she became a strong person after they reunited, and that's what made him fall for her. And after he came to compete for her, she scolded him instead of just getting soft and saying some cliches, their conversation was very unique. So it's not like Hao Du and Leyan story is typical just because she is a weak princess and he is a strong and cold guard, in fact creators were smart enough to make it interesting and different, with some surprises. But again, their story had some flaws, which could be easily avoided if creators consulted with our forum before finishing the script, hahaha.

I agree, gesun is in general a more unique relationships for dramas, with many new aspects and dynamics, but they didn't avoid some clichés too, like her falling from the roof? How do chinese women even survive if they fall so often as in chinese dramas. Or him saving her a bit too many times, unlike in the manhua.
As for haoyan, their general trope is indeed a typical one, but I find their dialogues being written very well, and development of both of them as personalities also quite outstanding. And she didn't! fall! into his hands! wow :D He just carried her a couple of times out of his own will :D

Yes, and that's... ok? She loved Xiao Wu and she loved Hao Du when cried for them. Those were different kinds of love, but both were serious feelings anyway. Can't you develop deeper feelings to your friend when some extreme events happen? Why should it be out of guilt or gratitude, and not just your own understanding that you need this person more than you thought before?

Changge indeed liked A'Sun before Mu Jin told her everything, but liking is also what Leyan felt for Hao Du long before episode 42, right? It's just that at the same time she liked Shuyu, and it was quite romantic feeling, and that's what causes some confusion, but in general Leyan had good relationships with Hao Du, she relied on him, and could talk literally about everything (but Changge, lol) with him, she could joke on him, she could argue with him when he was wrong. It's not much different from what Chagge felt to A'Sun in the beginning, I think. And as Leyan herself acknowledged, she was much more comfortable with HD than with Shuyu.
I understand you kind of needed more romantic signals from Leyan's side, but it could feel even more weird if she would do that to both Shuyu and Hao Du :D, and audience would disrespect her for that. So while she thought she was in love with Shuyu (and probably she was a little bit indeed) she didn't pay romantic attention to other men. Maybe there should have been longer time period between her accepting that Shuyu didn't love her and understanding that Hao Du did love her and answering his feelings, but we can say that competition was quite an emotional ride for her, and changed her attitude toward people and events quite significantly.

I can never agree that when HD was fighting she was thinking anything but "omg, he can die, no, no, no", period. At that moment she didn't have second thoughts about why he was doing this, she was just scared and totally devastated. The way she runs to him and hugs him... like, can't you see it? Those are not actions of indifferent woman, who feels just guilt, she feels much, much more than that. He was suffering and she was suffering too.

I think that creators got a bit carried away by wanting to make it a surprise. Also, they dragged a bit too long her affection to Shuyu, especially after she got aware of his feelings to Changge. It felt to be OOC for Leyan to still consider him as love interest.

But hayoan conversation after the fight satisfied me completely, it was not a typical confession scene, and that's a moment when drama really made a fresh take on relationships. I am ok if Leyan's decision to marry him at that moment was more reasonable than passionate. I am ok if during that conversation she was a bit selfish, wanting to be sure that this man was devoted to her as a woman, not as a princess or a person who needed help so he helped. She kind of understood that the best man out of all who could participate won that fight, the best man for her, and she grabbed that man in her little hands, and was very determined to keep him, as her husband, forever. She kind of made her choice, and then stuck to it, and enjoyed it very much. In the episodes following 42 you could see her developing passionate attitude too, so when they get married, the love is definitely mutual and lustful.

It's ok to not be satisfied with some flaws of their storyline, but I just needed to point out my vision of it, as I am a big fan of it :)

It's hard to believe, but one of Fang's sons also married one of the princesses (damn, Li Shimin had a lot of children).
Here is from viki:
"Fang's children were also highly honored, and his second son Fang Yi'ai (房遺愛) married Emperor Taizong's daughter Princess Gaoyang, while his daughter married Emperor Taizong's brother Li Yuanjia (李元嘉) the Prince of Han."

I also read that gesun and haoyan relationships in drama were very different, even contrasting each other... Well, for me it's not like that, at least not completely. In both couples men fall in love first, and their feelings are more evident and I would say deeper. Changge changed her mind about A'Sun after Mu Jin told her about al the times she was rescued by A'Sun. Leyan changed her mind about Hao Du after he found her at the end of her terrible journey and took care of her. Changge confessed after A'Sun was seriously injured. Leyan decided to marry Hao Du after he was seriously beaten. So, as for some tropes, unfortunately creators were not as inventive, as they could be :D And in both couples we have men, who are ready to do anything for their beloved ones, and girls who would do anything for their country first :D

I read some people see it as if Leyan fell for Hao Du because he rescued her, out of gratitude. And that's weird for me to read, cause it's like ignoring her behavior during the fight and their conversation after the fight completely. Not for a single moment was she happy that he was fighting, she was scared as hell. She had bad feelings about this competition, she didn't want it to happen at all, and I guess she was getting ready to try to fall in love with whoever wins, but at least she wanted that person to have feelings for her, otherwise her life would be totally miserable (this doesn't match with the fact, that the first competitor was someone totally random chosen by Changge, which was a weird script decision, so let's just ignore it).

But when a person, who actually mattered a lot to her, came to arena, all she could feel was fear. So it's more logical to assume that her feelings developed out of fear of losing him, then out of gratitude, cause afterwards she literally scolded him for taking part in competition. And that's very different from what she felt to Shuyu, whom she indeed made her romantic hero after saving her. Her reaction towards Hao Du rescuing her was so much more complicated.

The episode with the competition is not perfect, although very entertaining and, at the end of it, emotion packed. Obviously, creators wanted HD to appear as total surprise, so somehow noone considered him as candidate to fight although he would be a good choice. He also just disappeared from the plot before the fight, we only see him in the scene with his father. I think it would be better, if during some scenes he would have been there, observing Leyan or even trying to tell her something, but failing. And if she would also look at him as if wanting to ask something but not daring. Just a few little moments could make it all a bit better.

A comment about haoyan relationships, which I would like to make after reading other people's opinions in one of the discussions, which is now hard to find, because you are commenting too much!!! :D So I decided to post it as a new one.

I don't write any reviews here, as I think my English is not good enough :D But thanks!

They did changed a lot!
And if they sticked to historical truth, this drama would be full of tragic and unsatisfying endings :D

I was ok with FL's acting, she was believable both as innocent girl and a strong warrior. I liked her in second lifetime at first, but then creators forgot that it's better when something is happening, not just music playing while they show actors near the wall, so second lifetime got totally ruined for me at some point.
What I didn't like about the heroine was that she was asking so little questions! Who are you, why do you help me, do you like me, why do you behave so weird, what do you do apart from hanging out around me, what is your past, do you have friends.... Am I the only one who is curious about this? :D Only warrior incarnation was bold enough to ask questions and attack him a bit, but they ruined this line too in my opinion.
I have more issues about ML and his character, because I think some of character's traits plus weird acting choices made him not really likable, and only comic scenes saved him from being a total disaster.

PS. CGI at the end of ep 36 was awful :D The worst in all drama, totall mess happening on the screen.

Well, scene when Hao Du brings her cape, in the process of that conversation, she looks at him with a lot of warmth. Then in the palace, when HD brings his father to support her, that exchange of looks is even in opening titles, and its amazing.
Her happiness when Shuyu tells her HD helped Changge was a bit too much for a person who doesn't feel anything special to him too.

Imagine you have a friend or colleague, who suddenly brings you to meet your crush, obviouslg so that you could confess to him. Would you assume this friend or colleague can be in love with you? Nah. HD did something really stupid but so generous , taking into account his own feelings.

There are several scenes with HD being in search of Leyan, when you can see his growing anxiety, which happen long after Changge's story was finished for him. When he saw handkerchief and missed her again. Him running on streets where we saw Leyan just a few hours ago, but being too late. On the road when he asks people and they lie to him that never saw her. There is a nice night scene where his hair is in a mess, because he was riding the whole day or more.

Yeah, I think their story could be a bit better with adding just a few scenes, but it was ok and sometimes even great just as it is. Nothing can change my mind, because it had enormous emotional impact on me. Yes, HD falls in love first and for a long time his feelings will be deeper, but it's ok, it happened with gesun too - man falling first and probably having richer feelings because of his temperament. Girls love different in this drama, they don't lose their heads, don't make love as their nr 1 priority, while for their men they are nr 1 priority, and that's a fresh take :)

Not sure about marrying but as for his career, he didn't achieve anything remarkable
https://inf.news/en/entertainment/96c1768bffa9e3295ddbcd7ab685a638.html

I would also rewatch with better subs, those on viki sometimes were really bad.
Now only rewatching some scenes :)

I haven't found yet. I only know that in first part ZLS calls LYN royal dog or something like that instead of royal wolf (his common nickname among cn fans).
And in the scene with emperor ZLS was laughing and LYN asked her why she was laughing. She answered: I'm happy, I'm getting married. :)

1. Dragon King.
I didn't understand what kind of person he was, apart from being very stubborn. Is he a nice person? I don't know. He seems to have only one friend before the events of the drama (Mingge), to whom he wasn't that nice at all, quite cold and ungrateful actually.
Other side characters seem to find Dragon King annoying. Why? We don't know. My assumption - he never tells why he does things. If not QQ or XQX or Mingge around, many of his actions would end up badly for him, because he was just doing what he needed without explaining anything. I think the only two scenes when I liked him were 1) when he came to bow to XQX and ask how to avoid 2 more marriages; 2) his conversation with the Master in last episode. And his funny scenes were ok.

2. Lead couple.
I can't say they didn't have chemistry at all, but most of the time their scenes were just boring. It is hard to believe that a girl could go through 4 lifetimes in 36 episodes and it would be boring to watch, but it was. Main couple seemed to not have what to talk about, so most of their scenes were just fireflies, chestnuts and background music playing.
Also, it bothered me that FL had four different personalities, and I had a feeling that Dragon King romantically loved only the first one - Liuying. He cared about other three, wanted them to be safe, but it felt like he was their older brother, especially in second and fourth lifetimes.

3. Fight scenes where characters freeze on the ground or in the air and use their power while not moving at all. Sometimes they even look at different directions or simply. stand. with their backs. towards each other ????????? What a ridiculous director's take.
Some Dragon King vs XQX fights were ok.

4. I think the drama is kind of promoting unhealthy relationships :D :D :D
4.1 Main leads fall in love way to quickly. FL in her second and fourth lifetime falls for ML after seeing him just ones, in her fourth lifetime when she was just a small girl (creepy).
4.2 If FL has different personalities in her different lifetimes, it means Dragon King either loved four women or he loved her... idk, for her looks?
4.3 Dragon King following FL like a stalker, showing up in her room and observing her while being invisible, sleeping with her when she was not aware of it or even didn't yet meet him in her current lifetime. (creepy!)
4.4 XQX and QQ !although I love them!, but sometimes he was physically rude, grabbing her hand etc. He also did many things without her consent - 3call spell, spell connecting their foreheads, tracking spell on her purse, tracking spell on her hair, jesus christ, just think about being controlled like that in the real life :D

5. Big boss.
I don't think this drama needed the antagonist at all. The plot could hold without him. Main characters could keep having some troubles mostly because of her soul and him being a demon. Finale could be about some issues with that net, which XQX needed to fix with yin soul, they could fight altogether with external evil force. Mingge turning evil wasn't fun, it was just unbelievable, because quite reasonable person suddenly turned to spiteful maniac, laughing like a stereotyped villain from 80s. It would be easier for me to believe Mingge planned to open a supermarket in heavens than rule three realms. I was also a bit creeped out by how Dragon King killed him.

6. Unclear rules of the world.
We get to know some important details only in FL's fourth lifetime! Most rules suddenly appear the last moment! How can immortals or demons be killed? I have no idea, they just sometimes die, sometimes they don't. FL's soul is sometimes special and everyone can feel that, but sometimes noone can feel that. The demand to marry FL's friend for 3 lifetimes??? What a ridiculous demand! What does Dragon King and other demons do for... living? No idea. Mingge having the rule to exchange things - was it a rule he made for himself? Did anyone ask him what for he needed all the treasures? What changes he could and could not do with other peoples' fates?.. No idea. Heaven's emperor - wtf was that :D

7. Helplessness of FL, who would die dozens of times if ML wasn't there. Also, did you notice that apart from animals, saved by FL in her first lifetime and ML saving FL all the fu*king time, there were very few scenes when leads did anything not for each other but for other people? While QQ and XQX, and even Mingge helped them quite often. That's why the arc about FL and her childhood friend in her 3rd lifetime was first so good - protagonist was finally doing something protagonistic! But eventually that friend had to solve her problems alone and kill the main villain of that lifetime alone, lol. Then, XQX helped Dragon King so many times, sometimes even harming his own interests and his own body!, and what did Dragon King did for XQX? Let him swim in his pool and gave a couple of love advices, yeah.

8. Wasted opportunities.
So many I could list them for a couple of hours.
Nearly noone had any character development, maybe only XQX.
FL having special soul - and they used this subplot only in her fourth life.
FL's friend from the first life, because of whom so many sacrifices were made, just disappearing from the plot - come on, she is somewhere there, living with Dragon King's clone, right? If they would meet with FL in her other lifetimes, it would be fun!
XQX and Dragon King friendship - left nearly in ashes in the finale.
Mingge and Dragon King friendship - no emotions about that at all in the finale. Your friend turned evil? Whatever.
QQ's feathers - I thought that was important, but not really.
Dangerous knife made by sect eventually just hurt QQ and XQX cured her quite easily, poof.
Dragon King absorbing the energy of that stone XQX was guiding - and so what? Poof.
Side characters all just forgotten in the finale, etc etc etc

Ehhh, I wrote so much. It's pity that sometimes all we can say about the good drama: thanks, it was good! And about the bad one we go: blah blah blah blah blah blah :D

My list of complaints about this drama will be in comment below :D

I think in episodes right before the fight, there are several times when Leyan looks at Hao Du with a lot of affection. And I would say she never looked like that at Shuyu.
It's like... we can like someone really really much, but if we believe there is no chance for romance at all, this feeling is kind of sealed inside. And then when suddenly it seems that there is a hope for romantic relationships, the feelings just burst out.

As for Hao Du, there is also just liking first. In the beginning of the story they didn't know each other much, just probably seeing from afar from time to time. I guess he found her cute, but didn't even think to approach. He also didn't know her as a person. When she dissapeared they thought they'd find her quickly. But time passed and she was still missing, and you could see that he was getting a bit desperate about it. He then finds her on her worst day, he sees her the way he never saw her before. I'd say his liking becomes loving in the following days, when they talk a lot, and he develops real respect and admiration to her as a person. It was also like their meeting after separation unsealed his feelings :)