The real problem is color coding people instead of looking at them as 3D characters. It’s clear that they both…
"This reply seems a lot better than your previous ones. However, it is a bit rich coming from you to talk about nuance when you were the one hyper-fixated on a term in the original post"
My point is and has been: words mean things and context matters, that is why I *continued* to ask you what you meant because what you said from your initial post left a lot out. This is evident because *you* are the one who kept changing what you *really meant* so why you are insulting me (again) for seeking clarity, I don't know, especially the majority of what you've said in this thread you've gone back on.
"I think that relatability is what makes us root for fictional characters and stories. When we see people defending the same characters, it ultimately gives us too the validation for our behaviours. You said you understand them. I don't. I cannot relate to either of them."
I disagree with the above quote, relatability is not what makes us root for characters, understanding is. For Ex: My dad is not toxic like LN's I don't relate to anything about having a father who would speak and act that way or parents who would leave me when I was sick, but I certainly can * understand* the pain that must have caused a young LN because he needed someone and his parents neglected him. Same goes for the SML.
"So if I well and truly 'put myself in their shoes' I would be bashing them left right and centre" <---You're not supposed to think of how YOU would handle things if YOU were the character because the moment you become the character your entire *understanding* of every event shifts, you don't see the world as *you* anymore, you see it as the character sees it.
LN types: 'You don't have to be perfect to be worthy of love' and that message/theme is so apparent through every episode. People make mistakes, Both LN and SZT but despite those mistakes they are still undoubtably worthy of love.
PS: I didn't say "complex people necessarily more realistic" I SAID: It's just nice to see complex characters and dramas that feel more realistic and grounded.
Meaning: I am happy they are showing multifaceted (ie. complex) characters in a realistic way.
The real problem is color coding people instead of looking at them as 3D characters. It’s clear that they both…
I am not here to agree or disagree. We don't have to do either.
The point of the comment threads is to have a discussion.
"You were so offended and ready to die on that hill with the usage of commonly used term for your favourite, in a sentence" me repeatedly trying to gain clarity on the statements you are making while you are insulting me does not equal me being ready to die on a hill. It's called being inquisitive and having a discussion, to have in-depth discussions context and nuance needs to be addressed.
I made the "red flag" comparison to your own behaviors in this thread because from my POV you were not seeing my point of a person's behaviors in specific moments not being their entire essence. You may see it as "melodrama", but I see it as how you are treating me vs how I understand you might have a different MO outside of these comment threads. Sometimes it helps to put your self in the shoes of other people including drama characters (even if they're fictional).
You mentioned that the showrunners that are producing this drama aren't giving care to the FL but I don't see that to be true. The story is not done developing for one, viewers are very supportive of the FL, and the production company brought in intimacy coordinators to help ensure the scenes depict the story they are trying tell in a respectful and meaningful way.
Lastly, I want to address you have said that I am on a "male apologist agenda" but I am not doing that either. First, I can barely stand men. Second, I don't have a problem calling out toxic behavior of the ML, he says some very hurtful things in the drama, I *do not* like when he does those things and was thrilled when she blocked him. I also said I love and support the FL and the actress who plays her ( she's the entire reason I even watched this show to begin with, I loved her in 'Love Story In the 1970s) . Part of the reason why I love the FL is because I can understand the decisions she is making (even if I don't always agree with them) the actress who plays her is so good at making her character feel grounded and earnest and we see her struggles. If the ML was as toxic as I hear he is in the novel, I probably would have dropped the show because I would not understand the FL's draw. However the drama SHOWS us why the FL stays in this dynamic for six years before she finally leaves.
Tl;dr: People contain multitudes. Ultimately, it's just nice to see complex characters and dramas that feel more realistic and grounded.
The real problem is color coding people instead of looking at them as 3D characters. It’s clear that they both…
BREAKING NEWS: Not sure if this is the first time you are learning this but that is what happens with adaptations *things change* clearly there was more nuance added to LN's character, you expecting drama watchers to hate him because of things that happened in a novel most people didn't read is what I don't get. Moreover your first reply did NOT clarify anything you are saying in this most recent post so that't another incorrect statement.
You have been mad at me for 7 replies because *you* lack the ability to clarify *your own points* that is not my fault. Nothing I have said is a lie so I don't know where you get off accusing me of lying especially when I have been directly QUOTING YOU!
Perspective hasn't vanished, you're just upset that I question how you are coming to some of the conclusions that you have come to when literally nothing we've seen *in the drama* validates it, AND you keep changing your arguments.
What you fail to understand is there is a difference between labeling *red flag behaviors* and describing an *entire person* as a red flag. For Example: in this comment thread I have repeatedly been called all manner of negative things by you but if I labeled you as a *red flag* solely based on the insults you've said to me in this thread, I know that would be inaccurate because outside of this discussion I know you are a real person who has a family and friends and goals and other positive attributes so labeling an entire person a *red flag* because of 1 or 2 things and discarding everything else is the heart of what I am saying is the issue. LN has his issues but he also has some really great qualities and we see that time and time again in the drama.
PS. Why are you lying, no one else is checking this comment thread 5 days later. If you want to like your own posts cool but don't treat me like I am an idiot.
The real problem is color coding people instead of looking at them as 3D characters. It’s clear that they both…
"You have not actually answered any of the actual questions I have raised "
You didn't ask me any questions prior to the post you made last night. I already answered the part about the incidents. Your original post came about episode 10-11 and the incident in question came in ep 11 because that's when they actually started having relationship issues, the previous issues were work related; does that answer your question?
Now that I have clarified that part, I want to confirm that you have *not once* clarified the usage of the term "red flag" ... not a single time. You keep changing what you initially said and saying you didn't say the previous thing even though I can read and I have eyes. And to answer this question
When? When the hell did I say that there was nothing else to the character???
I refer you to the quote of YOURS that I already posted:
"It's annoying how in order to make the ML look like less of a red flag, they're making it look like the FL is" [Notice that is a ****direct quote from you******] this statement seeks to frame the ML solely as a 'red flag' (AKA:. 1 dimensional) and also insinuates the same being applied to the FL.
Lastly, the fact that you not only liked your own post but logged into a backup account to like it again makes is PEAK hilarious. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
So weird to see folks cheering on a breakup when LN and SZT just reached a happy point. Let me savor this and get all the feels, people are gonna be missing this era when it’s gone.
A man who constantly insults and belittles the woman he is with and the people around her is obviously a red flag.…
I am not sure what episode you are on but *constantly insults* is not an accurate qualifier for Luke's interactions, so no we are not watching the same show.
Also important to note that this entire series covers 10 years, and episodes 1-11 covers 2-3 years.
She wants to keep her job, and the job bans employees from dating each other. I think a lot of folks struggle…
yeah, I had a feeling you were watching something else too 😅 especially since it’s very evident why SZT is behaving as she is.
Also I think it’s funny you call SZT sulky and she smiles more than anyone. Even the SML pointed out how she’s always smiling & happy.
The moments when she’s not smiling we are shown what is going on (at least the version of the drama I am watching shows it). Your TV might get something different.
She wants to keep her job, and the job bans employees from dating each other. I think a lot of folks struggle…
The rule was already there. (Companies can’t just make rules like that without running it through legal)
Tracy agreed to *remind* the new hires about the policy, moreover this point just affirms my original point: SZT wants to keep her job so she puts ideas about relationships on the back burner.
On your second point SZT is ‘insecure’ because there is a definite power imbalance in their relationship and also he comes from a different social class and she also has less experience with men and relationships (also there is an age gap). Also when did she sulk??? If anything LN sulks every episode and everyone swoons. What is with the double standard?
Also LN *declaring* SZT is his girlfriend without ever asking her to be in a real relationship is HIGHLY audacious.
To be in an equitable relationship you have to be able to discuss what that looks like and I never saw LN and SZT do that. They only agreed on terms for their situationship and those were largely defined by their workplace policy.
She wants to keep her job, and the job bans employees from dating each other. I think a lot of folks struggle…
'Male centered' = 'pick me' or a woman who only cares about having a man in her life, to the detriment of everything else (friendships, children, career, education, life ambitions)
He isn't the one who set the rule about the ban on relationships, go back and watch episode 10 it was Flora. she only agreed if they could keep this secret and essentially a FWB situation. He agreed most likely because he didn't think he'd like her this much judging by his past with women.
Sorry, but she is starting to get on my nerves... (ep.11-12) Does she want to be in a relationship with him or…
She wants to keep her job, and the job bans employees from dating each other.
I think a lot of folks struggle with her being someone who is not 'male centered' but I think that is one of her very *best* qualities. If she was clingy and pushing for a relationship all the time everyone would get sick of seeing that and he would also get triggered because he has emotional attachment issues.
I think 30% of the reason he is so into her is that she's not the type to chase him. He's been on the hunt since ep 5.
The real problem is color coding people instead of looking at them as 3D characters. It’s clear that they both…
You are arguing with yourself at this point because you were literally the only person calling anyone a 'red flag' and implying that was all there was to the character. Also I find it funny how you keep liking your own reply posts like I can't tell. 😅
P.S. 1 incident at the time you made your original post (thanks for allowing me to clarify) 😇
The real problem is color coding people instead of looking at them as 3D characters. It’s clear that they both…
We can both read (well I know I can).
You literally started your post off claiming: "It's annoying how in order to make the ML look like less of a red flag, they're making it look like the FL is" [Notice that is a direct quote from you] this statement seeks to frame the ML solely as a 'red flag' (AKA:. 1 dimensional) and also insinuates the same being applied to the FL.
I don't know why you keep trying to deny what you said but *I am so thankful* you keep giving me opportunities to repeat what I said and add clarity for my statements.
Moreover I am absolutely ecstatic that the drama keeps showing us that even though the ML does have some definite flaws he also has many redeeming qualities because he is not just a "red flag" 1 dimensional character. ADDITIONALLY, I am very happy to see the FL continue to grow and be supported by viewers for her choices.
It's almost like we can just enjoy a drama about 2 imperfect people and not have to determine their entire worth because of 1 incident.
Finally a rational one! I also feel that. Imagine out of the blue your partner decides to leave lime without prior…
The thing is he figured out before SZT that Alex would try to get her to leave. He knew it first so the idea he would have no notice, idk... And he's usually pretty logical when it comes to business so why he would look down on her for looking for a better career path is strange (if you don't factor in that the boy is absolutely in love with her).
But on that note...
The fact that he didn't even *pause* to consider that her leaving Lime would allow them to publicly date absolutely makes it clear he does not see a future for them beyond what they are currently doing now. Which again begs the question, why should SZT stay?
Is SZT wrong for not initially telling LN about the offer from Alex? Does she owe him that much as her senior leader or her FWB?
I know they def blur the lines on the FWB situationship they have going but I still struggle with where LN gets the idea that SZT OWES him the explanation.
Also, why is he mad that she didn't tell him something he already figured out on his own? He is expecting her to be loyal and stay at LIME while he disparages her and her ability... I know a lot of his reactions stem from his dad issues and jealousy but he's really not giving her many reasons to want to stay in either situation.
The real problem is color coding people instead of looking at them as 3D characters. It’s clear that they both…
This analogy is way off because you are the one who wants to paint these characters as red flags or 1 dimensional and I am the one telling you that we should look at them fully and see why they are making the choices they are making.. So if anything I am showing you the trees and their myriad of colors.
1 
My point is and has been: words mean things and context matters, that is why I *continued* to ask you what you meant because what you said from your initial post left a lot out. This is evident because *you* are the one who kept changing what you *really meant* so why you are insulting me (again) for seeking clarity, I don't know, especially the majority of what you've said in this thread you've gone back on.
"I think that relatability is what makes us root for fictional characters and stories. When we see people defending the same characters, it ultimately gives us too the validation for our behaviours. You said you understand them. I don't. I cannot relate to either of them."
I disagree with the above quote, relatability is not what makes us root for characters, understanding is. For Ex: My dad is not toxic like LN's I don't relate to anything about having a father who would speak and act that way or parents who would leave me when I was sick, but I certainly can * understand* the pain that must have caused a young LN because he needed someone and his parents neglected him. Same goes for the SML.
"So if I well and truly 'put myself in their shoes' I would be bashing them left right and centre" <---You're not supposed to think of how YOU would handle things if YOU were the character because the moment you become the character your entire *understanding* of every event shifts, you don't see the world as *you* anymore, you see it as the character sees it.
LN types: 'You don't have to be perfect to be worthy of love' and that message/theme is so apparent through every episode. People make mistakes, Both LN and SZT but despite those mistakes they are still undoubtably worthy of love.
PS: I didn't say "complex people necessarily more realistic" I SAID: It's just nice to see complex characters and dramas that feel more realistic and grounded.
Meaning: I am happy they are showing multifaceted (ie. complex) characters in a realistic way.
The point of the comment threads is to have a discussion.
"You were so offended and ready to die on that hill with the usage of commonly used term for your favourite, in a sentence" me repeatedly trying to gain clarity on the statements you are making while you are insulting me does not equal me being ready to die on a hill. It's called being inquisitive and having a discussion, to have in-depth discussions context and nuance needs to be addressed.
I made the "red flag" comparison to your own behaviors in this thread because from my POV you were not seeing my point of a person's behaviors in specific moments not being their entire essence. You may see it as "melodrama", but I see it as how you are treating me vs how I understand you might have a different MO outside of these comment threads. Sometimes it helps to put your self in the shoes of other people including drama characters (even if they're fictional).
You mentioned that the showrunners that are producing this drama aren't giving care to the FL but I don't see that to be true. The story is not done developing for one, viewers are very supportive of the FL, and the production company brought in intimacy coordinators to help ensure the scenes depict the story they are trying tell in a respectful and meaningful way.
Lastly, I want to address you have said that I am on a "male apologist agenda" but I am not doing that either. First, I can barely stand men. Second, I don't have a problem calling out toxic behavior of the ML, he says some very hurtful things in the drama, I *do not* like when he does those things and was thrilled when she blocked him. I also said I love and support the FL and the actress who plays her ( she's the entire reason I even watched this show to begin with, I loved her in 'Love Story In the 1970s) . Part of the reason why I love the FL is because I can understand the decisions she is making (even if I don't always agree with them) the actress who plays her is so good at making her character feel grounded and earnest and we see her struggles. If the ML was as toxic as I hear he is in the novel, I probably would have dropped the show because I would not understand the FL's draw. However the drama SHOWS us why the FL stays in this dynamic for six years before she finally leaves.
Tl;dr: People contain multitudes. Ultimately, it's just nice to see complex characters and dramas that feel more realistic and grounded.
You have been mad at me for 7 replies because *you* lack the ability to clarify *your own points* that is not my fault. Nothing I have said is a lie so I don't know where you get off accusing me of lying especially when I have been directly QUOTING YOU!
Perspective hasn't vanished, you're just upset that I question how you are coming to some of the conclusions that you have come to when literally nothing we've seen *in the drama* validates it, AND you keep changing your arguments.
What you fail to understand is there is a difference between labeling *red flag behaviors* and describing an *entire person* as a red flag. For Example: in this comment thread I have repeatedly been called all manner of negative things by you but if I labeled you as a *red flag* solely based on the insults you've said to me in this thread, I know that would be inaccurate because outside of this discussion I know you are a real person who has a family and friends and goals and other positive attributes so labeling an entire person a *red flag* because of 1 or 2 things and discarding everything else is the heart of what I am saying is the issue. LN has his issues but he also has some really great qualities and we see that time and time again in the drama.
PS. Why are you lying, no one else is checking this comment thread 5 days later. If you want to like your own posts cool but don't treat me like I am an idiot.
You didn't ask me any questions prior to the post you made last night. I already answered the part about the incidents. Your original post came about episode 10-11 and the incident in question came in ep 11 because that's when they actually started having relationship issues, the previous issues were work related; does that answer your question?
Now that I have clarified that part, I want to confirm that you have *not once* clarified the usage of the term "red flag" ... not a single time. You keep changing what you initially said and saying you didn't say the previous thing even though I can read and I have eyes. And to answer this question
When? When the hell did I say that there was nothing else to the character???
I refer you to the quote of YOURS that I already posted:
"It's annoying how in order to make the ML look like less of a red flag, they're making it look like the FL is" [Notice that is a ****direct quote from you******] this statement seeks to frame the ML solely as a 'red flag' (AKA:. 1 dimensional) and also insinuates the same being applied to the FL.
Lastly, the fact that you not only liked your own post but logged into a backup account to like it again makes is PEAK hilarious. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I will be a pile of ashes when it happens 🕊️
Also important to note that this entire series covers 10 years, and episodes 1-11 covers 2-3 years.
Also I think it’s funny you call SZT sulky and she smiles more than anyone. Even the SML pointed out how she’s always smiling & happy.
The moments when she’s not smiling we are shown what is going on (at least the version of the drama I am watching shows it). Your TV might get something different.
Tracy agreed to *remind* the new hires about the policy, moreover this point just affirms my original point: SZT wants to keep her job so she puts ideas about relationships on the back burner.
On your second point SZT is ‘insecure’ because there is a definite power imbalance in their relationship and also he comes from a different social class and she also has less experience with men and relationships (also there is an age gap). Also when did she sulk??? If anything LN sulks every episode and everyone swoons. What is with the double standard?
Also LN *declaring* SZT is his girlfriend without ever asking her to be in a real relationship is HIGHLY audacious.
To be in an equitable relationship you have to be able to discuss what that looks like and I never saw LN and SZT do that. They only agreed on terms for their situationship and those were largely defined by their workplace policy.
Pup!Luke is giving Human!Luke serious competition for 'cutest Luke'
He isn't the one who set the rule about the ban on relationships, go back and watch episode 10 it was Flora. she only agreed if they could keep this secret and essentially a FWB situation. He agreed most likely because he didn't think he'd like her this much judging by his past with women.
I think a lot of folks struggle with her being someone who is not 'male centered' but I think that is one of her very *best* qualities. If she was clingy and pushing for a relationship all the time everyone would get sick of seeing that and he would also get triggered because he has emotional attachment issues.
I think 30% of the reason he is so into her is that she's not the type to chase him. He's been on the hunt since ep 5.
P.S. 1 incident at the time you made your original post (thanks for allowing me to clarify) 😇
You literally started your post off claiming: "It's annoying how in order to make the ML look like less of a red flag, they're making it look like the FL is" [Notice that is a direct quote from you] this statement seeks to frame the ML solely as a 'red flag' (AKA:. 1 dimensional) and also insinuates the same being applied to the FL.
I don't know why you keep trying to deny what you said but *I am so thankful* you keep giving me opportunities to repeat what I said and add clarity for my statements.
Moreover I am absolutely ecstatic that the drama keeps showing us that even though the ML does have some definite flaws he also has many redeeming qualities because he is not just a "red flag" 1 dimensional character. ADDITIONALLY, I am very happy to see the FL continue to grow and be supported by viewers for her choices.
It's almost like we can just enjoy a drama about 2 imperfect people and not have to determine their entire worth because of 1 incident.
But on that note...
The fact that he didn't even *pause* to consider that her leaving Lime would allow them to publicly date absolutely makes it clear he does not see a future for them beyond what they are currently doing now. Which again begs the question, why should SZT stay?
I know they def blur the lines on the FWB situationship they have going but I still struggle with where LN gets the idea that SZT OWES him the explanation.
Also, why is he mad that she didn't tell him something he already figured out on his own? He is expecting her to be loyal and stay at LIME while he disparages her and her ability... I know a lot of his reactions stem from his dad issues and jealousy but he's really not giving her many reasons to want to stay in either situation.