I don’t want to criticise this really well-done series, but I am getting a little uncomfortable with how they…
I can understand you feeling concerned. A few people have raised this matter. For myself, I saw it playing out as a community project that the kids enjoyed participating in. Further, in rural farming communities around the world children participate in the running of the farm doing chores suitable to their age, and the villagers are essentially tea leaf farmers. Small-scale farming is often a whole family affair. The sachet sewing was not the norm for the village and should not be indicative of exploitation. Adults were doing it, too.
It's not about rather believing the victims than the presumption of innocence. It's about logic and the simplest…
I don't really know that case but I did do some reading up on it and it appears to have unfolded in a very different way from this case.
Even his agency issued a statement that only tried to deny "sexual violence." They acknowledged that Ji Soo acknowledged that he committed the "school violence." Among the school violence there were accusations of beatings by Ji Soo.
In contrast, Park Hye soo, has also recently been accused of bullying. In her case: "Park Hye Soo denies all the allegations through her agency Studio Santa Claus Entertainment and they have also announced that they will take legal action on any slander against their artist."
That is the approach that would be consistent with someone who feels they were falsely accused.
That is not how Ji Soo's case is playing out.
In summary while I can see where you are coming from each and every instance should be looked at on its own and we should not be automatically assuming one way or another. In the eyes of some, given the way his case is unfolding, Ji Soo is not fully innocent.
I agree but don't at the same time.If we turn the time back to when he wasn't "caught" how would he be able to…
Again, you would be placing the onus on the victim to approach things in your preferred manner. We do not have the right to do so. If there should be onus placed, it should be on the abuser, not the victim.
When someone does something that involves abusing positions of power and/or privilege, psychical violence and/or sexual violence, the natural instinct of most people is for that person to be seriously punished because something that all of those things have in common is that the person doing them thinks they are special somehow and that the rules of behaviour do not apply to them. In short, they are a threat to society because they cannot be trusted to respect the basic rights others have to things like personal safety. If the person does not go through some sort of formalized process of punishment and (later) consistently demonstrate that they have changed their ways, most people will shun them.
Do we worry about the person we see on the news who is sentenced for a violent crime? No, the vast majority of us do not. Why should Ji Soo's case be any different?
Anyone who chooses to put themselves into the public's attention whether it's through choosing a career in sports, acting, politics, etc. should realize that they are at risk of having their actions, both past and present, scrutinised publicly. That is part of the price of influence, fame, recognition, success, and wealth. If they had skeletons in their closets, they should have dealt with them before they started to climb the ladders of celebrity. If they didn't deal with them, they were either stupid or arrogant. In most cases where this happens, the people were found out to be arrogant because, again, they didn't think that the rules applied to them and they thought they could get away with what they did.
Further, because he did not make any effort at making amends until now, his actions could be said to not actually belong in the past. They were unreckoned with until the present. Still, he took no action until he was exposed. That greatly undermines the growth and maturity you afforded him.
As for his age at the time he initially did these things. He was in his mid teens. From a growth and development perspective; I, likely you, and most people would have known that choosing to do would be wrong. He chose to do it, anyway.
uhmm.. rude..??????? just bare with it and look at the storyline and acting and chemistry and stuff then comment…
Excuse me, but you are the one being rude to someone for expressing their opinion. People are entirely free to criticise any aspects of a show if they don't like them.
Ji Soo sure has picked the right time to enlist. Although I don't always agree with the way things go down nowadays,…
Indeed. He would have been in his mid teens and older when he did these things. The average mid teen would know that it would be wrong to do, but he chose to do it, anyway and to not even try to make amends until he was exposed. He has brought this on himself.
What are they stirring up exactly... maybe the truth. Some of you'll need to read your posts before you send them.…
QUOTE from elliewashere2: "Well, thanks all you trolls out there."
I am quite comfortable in stating that I was not trolling you.
QUOTE from elliewashere2: "I've never been this infamous before. Thanks for quoting me so much. And blowing this story to such magnitudes. Thanks for making me feel like an idiot. None of you care about my feelings and its cool to bully me, evidently."
Nor was I was not bullying you. You chose to post a statement in this thread that was poorly thought through and lacking insight as to the potentially harmful effect that it could have on others. On a site like this, you should not be surprised that poorly constructed positions are confronted, especially when they are addressing real issues involving real incidents and people instead of characters in a drama. If you cannot defend a statement, you should not post it in the first place. You cannot blame me for "making you feel like an idiot." That is your own response to having your position challenged. It is you telling you "maybe I didn't think through what I wrote."
QUOTE from elliewashere2: "Do you have any solutions? or just rallying for the protest and staying at home nice and cozy."
When someone does something that involves abusing positions of power and/or privilege, psychical violence and/or sexual violence, the natural instinct of most people is for that person to be seriously punished because something that all of those things have in common is that the person doing them thinks they are special somehow and that the rules of behaviour do not apply to them. In short, they are a threat to society because they cannot be trusted to respect the basic rights others have to things like personal safety. If the person does not go through some sort of formalized process of punishment and (later) consistently demonstrate that they have changed their ways, most people will shun them.
I will not directly engage with you further because you seem too young and/or naive to truly appreciate the larger picture that is involved with these sorts of issues. That said, please know that I will report any further statements you make that I come across which are carelessly framed and potentially harmful to others. Be more careful with what you say and how you say it when posting about sensitive issues.
It's not about rather believing the victims than the presumption of innocence. It's about logic and the simplest…
I'd like to know more about the phenomena. Could you name some people whose careers have been ruined by baseless rumours? I'd like to search for their stories.
Personally, I would not scream 'innocent ' until proven guilty for two reasons. 1) Abusers rely on that to get away with what they do 2) How historically difficult is has been for women, especially, to even be heard when making allegations about abuse from men. As a person living in Korea, you know how dismal the country's track record is. (It's bad everywhere but Asian industrial nations fail noticeably in comparison to other industrialised nations)
In order for that to change, people need to see that things do not get routinely dismissed out of hand and they need to see that it's not potentially swept under a pile of hush-money: another historic trick.
In this particular instance, the fact that Ji Soo's first response was to issue the apology letter said there was truth to some of the allegations. It's non-mention of specifics raises alarms because it very was likely done to give time for legal advisors to suss out what they might have to concede and what they might be able to deny. I maintain that the first step of of someone wholly innocent would be to issue a personal statement specifically denying the allegations and stating that they will not hesitate to report false accusations to the police, as one actress has recently done, as likely advised by legal counsel.
What Jisoo did when he was young was wrong and I'm not justifying it. Though in his apology letter you can see…
Unfortunately, the handwritten letter is a common practice in Korea when one has done something wrong. It is a tactic so frequently employed that it's true sincerity can often be questioned.
If he had sincerely wanted to try and right his wrongs, why did he wait to take action or express any remorse until his actions had been made public? That suggests that he was not truly remorseful, after all.
One letter cannot clear away his responsibility. Forgiveness from his victims is possible, but he will likely have to consistently demonstrate his remorse through words and actions, for some time, first.
i am very conflicted about this issue... i am genuinely not a fan of Ji Soo (never seen any show with him inside)and…
Please scroll down and read peachy_arsenic's post.
Further, we don't know the extent and severity of the trauma his actions caused to the victims. It's possible that some may have symptoms like invasive thoughts, reoccurring flashbacks to the incident,s and/or night terrors. It is possible that some of them can't hold a job and have to live off of a puny support allowance from welfare because of the instilled fear and anxiety. His agency isn't responsible for what he did and there would be no reason for a victim to go to them. The victims are not responsible for what they suffer. I'm sorry, but that only leaves one person who made choices to do those things and who didn't ever try to make amends until it was made public...
When someone does something that involves abusing positions of power and/or privilege, psychical violence and/or sexual violence, the natural instinct of most people is for that person to be seriously punished because something that all of those things have in common is that the person doing them thinks they are special somehow and that the rules of behaviour do not apply to them. In short, they are a threat to society because they cannot be trusted to respect the basic rights others have to things like personal safety. If the person does not go through some sort of formalized process of punishment and (later) consistently demonstrate that they have changed their ways, most people will shun them. This is the reality of the situation, whether we personally approve of it or not.
What are they stirring up exactly... maybe the truth. Some of you'll need to read your posts before you send them.…
Quote from elliewashere2: "See it's people like you guys who run with this like a fireball creating it worse than it really was that happened so long ago and really..have you never given anyone a second chance?"
Any chances Ji Soo receives are not up to either you or me. Meanwhile, your prior statement is highly insensitive and possibly hurtful and harmful to members of this board who have been victimized in the past and had to deal with the denial as to their motivation and honesty. It has been reported.
I feel it's sketchy. The entertainment industry there can do whatever they want to bring you down and make an…
QUOTEfrom elliewashere2: "I feel it's sketchy. The entertainment industry there can do whatever they want to bring you down and make an actor panic. Look, this guy has been in the military. He's done his time in supporting roles..finally he's getting somewhere..probably wanted more money ..and what happens? I think there is far more pressure these days. It's as if it's witch hunt. The fans go ballistic. It's a sad fact to stir up something like this, but it happens."
Actually, he's only running off to join the military, now, in the time honoured tradition of Disgraced Korean Stars Who've Done Shady Shit that came before him...
He is probably guilty. With that said I find it so annoying how easily people are condemned like this. Spend 10000$…
QUOTE from Sinasina: "With that said I find it so annoying how easily people are condemned like this. Spend 10000$ on bribing a few former classmates, find an ajumma that remembers that "loud" kid and the career of an actor is permanently ruined. It's impossible to find evidence so many years after the fact.. It's not like anyone is going to be forced testify, or anything."
I'm curious. Is this from a specific instance that you read about? Could you provide a link to the story? I'd really like to read it... or are you presenting fiction as fact, yourself?
I don't care if the writers somehow manage to explain the multiple inexplicable story lines in this series without…
I felt the same way and have bitches about Shi Yu's pettiness toward those employees, to boot. They couldn't pay me to watch another episode. It only took them 40 minutes to pull off the wholesale butchering of their S1 characters.
The people who are abusing him, (don't mind them) coz they will be the fan of him in upcoming days/years, after…
Quote from Stanning Exo: "The people who are abusing him, (don't mind them) coz they will be the fan of him in upcoming days/years, after the situation will be cool down everyone will forget about this"
Saying that is just plain silly. You cannot predict the future and you cannot claim to know that people who are disgusted by this will become fans of his again. Therefore, you are lying and/or trolling. Stop it, please.
I will explain myself in better manner, because normally I'm lazy to translate my Czech posts on FB, I normally…
One shouldn't have done things in the past that they need to or haven't already cleaned up, in the first place. Simple.
Anyone who enters public life through, athletics, the arts, politics, etc. knows that they are entering a realm with high scrutiny. That the price of admission for influence fame and fortune, unlike your plumber.
Anyone considering those fields should have looked at themselves and addressed any wrongs they committed before they start climbing the ladder. Otherwise, those things are not truly in the past. The majority of the time, when things do come along, it's later seen that it was because the person was arrogant and thought that the rules for the rest of us did not apply to them.
Even his agency issued a statement that only tried to deny "sexual violence." They acknowledged that Ji Soo acknowledged that he committed the "school violence." Among the school violence there were accusations of beatings by Ji Soo.
In contrast, Park Hye soo, has also recently been accused of bullying. In her case: "Park Hye Soo denies all the allegations through her agency Studio Santa Claus Entertainment and they have also announced that they will take legal action on any slander against their artist."
Article link: https://mydramalist.com/article/preview/6613
That is the approach that would be consistent with someone who feels they were falsely accused.
That is not how Ji Soo's case is playing out.
In summary while I can see where you are coming from each and every instance should be looked at on its own and we should not be automatically assuming one way or another. In the eyes of some, given the way his case is unfolding, Ji Soo is not fully innocent.
When someone does something that involves abusing positions of power and/or privilege, psychical violence and/or sexual violence, the natural instinct of most people is for that person to be seriously punished because something that all of those things have in common is that the person doing them thinks they are special somehow and that the rules of behaviour do not apply to them. In short, they are a threat to society because they cannot be trusted to respect the basic rights others have to things like personal safety. If the person does not go through some sort of formalized process of punishment and (later) consistently demonstrate that they have changed their ways, most people will shun them.
Do we worry about the person we see on the news who is sentenced for a violent crime? No, the vast majority of us do not. Why should Ji Soo's case be any different?
Anyone who chooses to put themselves into the public's attention whether it's through choosing a career in sports, acting, politics, etc. should realize that they are at risk of having their actions, both past and present, scrutinised publicly. That is part of the price of influence, fame, recognition, success, and wealth. If they had skeletons in their closets, they should have dealt with them before they started to climb the ladders of celebrity. If they didn't deal with them, they were either stupid or arrogant. In most cases where this happens, the people were found out to be arrogant because, again, they didn't think that the rules applied to them and they thought they could get away with what they did.
Further, because he did not make any effort at making amends until now, his actions could be said to not actually belong in the past. They were unreckoned with until the present. Still, he took no action until he was exposed. That greatly undermines the growth and maturity you afforded him.
As for his age at the time he initially did these things. He was in his mid teens. From a growth and development perspective; I, likely you, and most people would have known that choosing to do would be wrong. He chose to do it, anyway.
I am quite comfortable in stating that I was not trolling you.
QUOTE from elliewashere2: "I've never been this infamous before. Thanks for quoting me so much. And blowing this story to such magnitudes. Thanks for making me feel like an idiot. None of you care about my feelings and its cool to bully me, evidently."
Nor was I was not bullying you. You chose to post a statement in this thread that was poorly thought through and lacking insight as to the potentially harmful effect that it could have on others. On a site like this, you should not be surprised that poorly constructed positions are confronted, especially when they are addressing real issues involving real incidents and people instead of characters in a drama. If you cannot defend a statement, you should not post it in the first place. You cannot blame me for "making you feel like an idiot." That is your own response to having your position challenged. It is you telling you "maybe I didn't think through what I wrote."
QUOTE from elliewashere2: "Do you have any solutions? or just rallying for the protest and staying at home nice and cozy."
When someone does something that involves abusing positions of power and/or privilege, psychical violence and/or sexual violence, the natural instinct of most people is for that person to be seriously punished because something that all of those things have in common is that the person doing them thinks they are special somehow and that the rules of behaviour do not apply to them. In short, they are a threat to society because they cannot be trusted to respect the basic rights others have to things like personal safety. If the person does not go through some sort of formalized process of punishment and (later) consistently demonstrate that they have changed their ways, most people will shun them.
I will not directly engage with you further because you seem too young and/or naive to truly appreciate the larger picture that is involved with these sorts of issues. That said, please know that I will report any further statements you make that I come across which are carelessly framed and potentially harmful to others. Be more careful with what you say and how you say it when posting about sensitive issues.
Personally, I would not scream 'innocent ' until proven guilty for two reasons. 1) Abusers rely on that to get away with what they do 2) How historically difficult is has been for women, especially, to even be heard when making allegations about abuse from men. As a person living in Korea, you know how dismal the country's track record is. (It's bad everywhere but Asian industrial nations fail noticeably in comparison to other industrialised nations)
In order for that to change, people need to see that things do not get routinely dismissed out of hand and they need to see that it's not potentially swept under a pile of hush-money: another historic trick.
In this particular instance, the fact that Ji Soo's first response was to issue the apology letter said there was truth to some of the allegations. It's non-mention of specifics raises alarms because it very was likely done to give time for legal advisors to suss out what they might have to concede and what they might be able to deny. I maintain that the first step of of someone wholly innocent would be to issue a personal statement specifically denying the allegations and stating that they will not hesitate to report false accusations to the police, as one actress has recently done, as likely advised by legal counsel.
If he had sincerely wanted to try and right his wrongs, why did he wait to take action or express any remorse until his actions had been made public? That suggests that he was not truly remorseful, after all.
One letter cannot clear away his responsibility. Forgiveness from his victims is possible, but he will likely have to consistently demonstrate his remorse through words and actions, for some time, first.
Further, we don't know the extent and severity of the trauma his actions caused to the victims. It's possible that some may have symptoms like invasive thoughts, reoccurring flashbacks to the incident,s and/or night terrors. It is possible that some of them can't hold a job and have to live off of a puny support allowance from welfare because of the instilled fear and anxiety. His agency isn't responsible for what he did and there would be no reason for a victim to go to them. The victims are not responsible for what they suffer. I'm sorry, but that only leaves one person who made choices to do those things and who didn't ever try to make amends until it was made public...
When someone does something that involves abusing positions of power and/or privilege, psychical violence and/or sexual violence, the natural instinct of most people is for that person to be seriously punished because something that all of those things have in common is that the person doing them thinks they are special somehow and that the rules of behaviour do not apply to them. In short, they are a threat to society because they cannot be trusted to respect the basic rights others have to things like personal safety. If the person does not go through some sort of formalized process of punishment and (later) consistently demonstrate that they have changed their ways, most people will shun them. This is the reality of the situation, whether we personally approve of it or not.
Any chances Ji Soo receives are not up to either you or me. Meanwhile, your prior statement is highly insensitive and possibly hurtful and harmful to members of this board who have been victimized in the past and had to deal with the denial as to their motivation and honesty. It has been reported.
Actually, he's only running off to join the military, now, in the time honoured tradition of Disgraced Korean Stars Who've Done Shady Shit that came before him...
https://meaww.com/sexual-harassment-allegations-actor-kim-ji-soo-will-enlist-military-october-going-to-hide-korean
Your statement is inaccurate and reads more like wishful thinking.
I'm curious. Is this from a specific instance that you read about? Could you provide a link to the story? I'd really like to read it... or are you presenting fiction as fact, yourself?
Saying that is just plain silly. You cannot predict the future and you cannot claim to know that people who are disgusted by this will become fans of his again. Therefore, you are lying and/or trolling. Stop it, please.
Anyone who enters public life through, athletics, the arts, politics, etc. knows that they are entering a realm with high scrutiny. That the price of admission for influence fame and fortune, unlike your plumber.
Anyone considering those fields should have looked at themselves and addressed any wrongs they committed before they start climbing the ladder. Otherwise, those things are not truly in the past. The majority of the time, when things do come along, it's later seen that it was because the person was arrogant and thought that the rules for the rest of us did not apply to them.