2 hours agoAH :
AH :
Thank you for clarifying that. Do you know the difference between 朱萸 (Zhū yú / dogwood) and 茱萸 (Zhū yú / dogwood) by any chance, or why Tong Hua uses two different terms?
I wonder if it is like the kanji for tree in Japanese.
木 = one tree
木 木 = woods/ trees
森 = forest
So, the difference is dogwood and dogwoods? Or dogwood and dogwood flowers?
That's a clever thought. Thanks to Chineasy, I know that the same approach applies to the equivalent characters in Mandarin.
茱 being a plural version of 朱 would definitely explain why 茱萸 is used for 茱萸花 / dogwood flowers instead of 朱萸花. But, unless I'm missing something, it wouldn't explain why Tong Hua used 朱萸 to refer to Zhu Yu (the person) in chapter 15 and 茱萸 to refer to her in chapter 50.
It is not true in this instance. 茱 is not a plural form of 朱.
茱 means cornelian cherry
朱 has multiple meanings. Apart from being a surname, it also means cinnabar / vermillion / bright red.
In 茱, the radical (部首) in this case is ⺿, which is usually used to denote plants (similar to 萸).
I am not well versed enough in the origins of Chinese characters to know the reason the radical is combined with 朱 - it could perhaps be due to the fact that 朱 has the same pronunciation as 茱. Or it might be due to the fact that 朱 means vermillion or bright red, which is the colour of the plant 茱.
1) Even if LYF is not a political masterpiece, it does speak to TH's knowledge and research of how historically Chinese dynasties have conquered the Central Plains. They use what historians call "divide and conquer."plor20:
In East Asian history, Chinese dynasties have often deployed tactics that Sinicized their subjects. These tactics are so effective that they even Sinicized foreign conquerors like the Mongols and the Manchus.
The other tactic that they deployed was "encouraging" their population to migrate to conquered territory and "encouraging" inter-breeding and marriages with the natives. There is a strong idea of lineage through the paternal's last name - so any child born that is given the last name of one of their own is a victory ensuring the assimilation and Sinicization of their subjects and new territories.
Whenever XY talked about how it's the best thing for Dai Huang for CX to ascend the throne and rule over all the land, I rolled my eyes. Of course, XY would think that - she's bias and she's on the "conqueror" side. This novel is based on mythology and the outcome is already determined and the victor will of course sell the victory in the best light. But tribal identity is incredibly strong, so why should Shen Nong buy into this idea that everyone becoming one and under one rule is the best thing ever? And XY who's more interested in having someone who will never leave her; living her little life in peace - for her to be preaching about the greater good is laughable. As shallow as a puddle. A strong, determined woman who cares about the greater good was not the character that TH created with XY.
XL's selflessness lies in the fact that he always gave XY a choice and that he didn't want her to feel like she owed him for his love. He had hoped she would be brave enough to take the time they had left to treasure, lived and loved. By the time the 37 years were over, XL realized his days were outnumbered faster than he had anticipated, so he pushed her away.
I'm of two minds about just what was the last chance that XL gave XY. There are times when I felt like her refusal to answer the 4th question after the marriage snatch was when he closed the door on her/them for good. But certainly, XY's reaction after finding out that Jing couldn't live without her after that 37 years would have gone a long way towards letting XL know that she wasn't brave enough to face a future with him.
a. XL did approach XY multiple times, gave her multiple times to choose.
b. XL took XY words of "temporary companions" as truth. So he had thought that even if they were temporary, they can still enjoy thier best years together. Imagine the disappointment when he realized XY lied about this.
c. YaoLiu love line was dependent on XY's decisions, since she never made it, there relationship never went pass an emotional and psychological intimacy.
d. XL was ready to take on whatever consequences was on the horizon the moment he declared "The sea is beneath you feet."
Yup. Particularly point C.
f. XL always jest in sarcasm and doublespeak with XY. When he poked at XY that if not Jing, who else would she be looking for, he already knew the answer. So when he snarked at XY that he wasn't a man to be followed, he was daring XY if she would follow him.
And she didn't dare to follow him so that was that. She ended up with the floppiest of flops. I would feel sorry for her except I don't think XY needs me to :-) 'cause she doesn't see the problem. Which is sad in itself :-)
Lol. How did I miss this comment? I think this is the first time that I have seen you being so harsh towards Jing, liddi.HeadInTheClouds:
LOL. That was triggered by my frustration that he pulled her back yet again just as she was planning to jump into the ocean to go after Xiang Liu after listening to the song of the merpeople together. And in doing so, robbed us of yet more Xiang Liu scenes. And the worst part is that one very stubborn nine-headed demon was the one who ensured Jing could hear every word they exchanged. ARGH! I wish someone could have reminded him that he was not 月下老人 God of Matchmaking and Marriage *bangs head on the seashell he decided to destroy thus effectively erasing his, their home*
Considering that TH was planning on writing about the Ruler of the Underworld and the Guifeng Clan with their soul-restoring herbs, I would say that she was thinking about incorporating souls and resurrection into this world so it's not outside the realm of possibility that XL could be brought back. I've read many YaoLiu fanfic that incorporated the Guifeng Clan as part of XL's resurrection.
Yes. It was telling that the prequel would feature the Guifang clan, who were in possession of the soul-restoring plants, as well as 冥王 the Ruler of the Underworld. In addition Tong Hua had planned to cover the themes of life and death in that novel, so it is almost a certainty resurrection would be a part of it. I am not as certain Xiang Liu would have requested to be resurrected, he who was haunted by the memories of his comrades, dead or alive whom he kept in his heart. If anything, I can only see him requesting for Fangfeng Bei to be resurrected as repayment for the life he got to live - as a beloved son, and as someone who could freely traverse the mortal realm. As I mentioned earlier to @blabla100, it is a possibility he kept Fangfeng Bei's body intact and preserved at the North Pole since he only consumed his spiritual blood and power. As such, the possibilities are there. I just don't know whether we are just barking up the wrong tree, based on a salt-laden rumour of a 2nd epilogue... heh.
And because it's fantasy, often it's a case of "don't ask too many questions, and just go with it" :-).
Definitely. Scrutinise too much and we often end up with holes the size of craters.
In some of the novels that I've read, the demon core can be seen as the most basic/primitive aspect of the demon - sometimes the removal of the demon core weakens the demon but doesn't necessarily kill them or render them unconscious or helpless. The demon core seems to be separate from the soul or consciousness/memories.
That's an interesting idea. In which case, where would the soul or consciousness reside, if not in its most basic aspect of its being? Or perhaps I should just remind myself of what I just said immediately before!
Considering that the LYF's novel fandom is predominantly YaoLiu or XL's fans (at least the most devoted ones), I don't think they would be averse to this at all :-). And now that it has been adapted, money has been made from both ships sailing and the associated shipping war, maybe she would consider throwing a bone our way in another few years. A short story of some kind. With the devoted XL fans, they would probably read stories about him even without XY as long as his character remained intact and not butchered to hell and back.
I love your optimism. Hopefully it will rub off on me too. But... I remain skeptical for now. Again, Tong Hua, please remove the 6 month post view restriction on your Weibo account so that I can go and read back on your thoughts over the years!
My interpretation is something like this. XL and WXL met, both lonely, both drawn to eachother. XL kinda made it clear to WXL since the beginning how involved he is în the war and altough it was never said out loud, it was implied that they were both aware that he is not going to outlive the end of the war. The difference between XY and WXL was that WXL was ok with that, she basically told him that if she can't have a forever, a temporary companion works too and XL was more than happy to agree to the "deal", so to speak. He was lonely too, he was drawn to WXL too. I even interpret WXL raising the fact about being ok with a temporary companion to him as her way of telling him not to back off because she won't ask for more from him.blabla100:
Ok. I got the gist of your stance. I just want to clarify a few things.
So you think that XL did plan for a relationship with XY as WXL? That he planted the bugs as part of that and not just merely to save XY from the bugs potentially turning into the heartbreak bugs?
So once he realized that she was XY, princess of Hao Ling did he change his mind? or did that only come after her whole "you're not suitable to ....etc"? What was the purpose of him trying to get her to kiss him if not because he still wanted a relationship and wanted to see her treatment of him has changed?
The turning point IMO was not actually Jing's promise, but the fact that XY was not WXL anymore.
I think this would be more convincing for me if she wasn't already considering Jing as a potential forever companion even before everything went down with CX dragging her back to Hao Ling, and if she didn't already accept the 15-year promise with Jing. I think the fact that once she regains her girl status she immediately accepts Jing's offer and essentially chucks XL aside (that is if she ever seriously considered him in the first place, which I personally don't think she did) just showed me that the choice was always hers to make. And she was always driven by minimizing her potential losses.
What I got from XL's reaction was not only that he realised quite well what XY meant, but it also made sense to him, IMO.
I agree with you that XL understood where XY comes from and empathized with her which is why he never forced or pressured her. I think we just disagree about the impact of XY's fear on XL's own decision and at what point he decided to really close the door on their relationship.
38 minutes agoliddi:
AH :
2 hours ago
AH :
Thank you for clarifying that. Do you know the difference between 朱萸 (Zhū yú / dogwood) and 茱萸 (Zhū yú / dogwood) by any chance, or why Tong Hua uses two different terms?
I wonder if it is like the kanji for tree in Japanese.
木 = one tree
木 木 = woods/ trees
森 = forest
So, the difference is dogwood and dogwoods? Or dogwood and dogwood flowers?
AH :
That's a clever thought. Thanks to Chineasy, I know that the same approach applies to the equivalent characters in Mandarin.
茱 being a plural version of 朱 would definitely explain why 茱萸 is used for 茱萸花 / dogwood flowers instead of 朱萸花. But, unless I'm missing something, it wouldn't explain why Tong Hua used 朱萸 to refer to Zhu Yu (the person) in chapter 15 and 茱萸 to refer to her in chapter 50.
@Kokuto @AH
It is not true in this instance. 茱 is not a plural form of 朱.
茱 means cornelian cherry
朱 has multiple meanings. Apart from being a surname, it also means cinnabar / vermillion / bright red.
In 茱, the radical (部首) in this case is ⺿, which is usually used to denote plants (similar to 萸).
I am not well versed enough in the origins of Chinese characters to know the reason the radical is combined with 朱 - it could perhaps be due to the fact that 朱 has the same pronunciation as 茱. Or it might be due to the fact that 朱 means vermillion or bright red, which is the colour of the plant 茱.
@Liddi, AH and Kokuto,
I just check the word 茱萸 and 朱萸 using Online Han dictionary. That online dictionary gives the result of the latter word is Zhu Yu (the name) in which 朱 is vermilion, cinnabar and 萸used as a component of 茱萸. When I searched for 茱, it results in "used as a component of 茱萸".
Thus my understading the way Tong Hua used these two word for Aunt Zhu Yu is she refered the plant when she used 茱萸 and 朱萸 is referred to specific name.
Zhu Yu is a wood demon. Probably her wooden original form was dogwood. Qing Yang had kept a short wooden stick by his body for many years and one day that piece of wood became human form ans was called Zhu Yu. With regard to respect and specific name, that pronounciation sound of the word for the plant corresponded to the writing form 朱萸.
In Chapter 50, ZH/CX recalled the childhood memory with the aunt. Zhu Yu at that time was regarded as Qing Yang's assistant/servant. She was a kind of high ranked maid in Zhao Yun palace. And CX, XY called her Aunt 茱萸, meaning Aunt dogwood. They were kids, thus they called her with more casual, less respected way althought the phonetics were identical. For example, english name Laurel refers to laurel tree (laurus in Latin); when a friend of a girl named Laurel calls her miss laurel as nickname or someone full of aura/achievement.
Thus my understading the way Tong Hua used these two word for Aunt Zhu Yu is she refered the plant when she used 茱萸 and 朱萸 is referred to specific name.H19279:
Yes. 朱萸 refers to the name of the wood demon which was transformed from a piece of wood into her human form.
茱萸 refers to dogwood / cornelian cherries, or in the context of the novels, the 茱萸花 the dogwood flowers or cornelian cherry blossoms.
朱 and 茱 do not have any correlating meaning at all.
As such, my take is that Tong Hua chose to name the demon 朱萸 because it was phonetically the same as the plant. The use of 朱 also makes sense because it represents a colour (vermillion, bright red) that corresponds to the cornelian cherry itself.
I feel like Tong Hua is more interested in screenwriting now? But I haven't completely given up hope, because LYF is really popular and makes a lot of money for Tencent, so maybe there are a lot of people urging her to continue this series now ; -)ZYHLJ:
Let's keep the prayer circle going for the two books to finally be written and published. Actually, there was also supposed to be a 3rd book from the 大汉情缘 Love in the Han Dynasty trilogy (comprising 大漠谣 Ballad of the Desert, 云中歌 Love Yunge From the Desert) that has yet to be released, and 云中歌 was published in 2007! As such, unless there is great demand and Tong Hua is ready to revisit the LYF universe, the chances of the two books being available look bleak.
It does seem that she is more involved in producing and scriptwriting at the moment. Filter is certainly an original work with no source material to refer to, so I am really keen to watch (particularly since Tong Hua casted TJC!) and see how it fares.
Her futuristic novel 散落星河的记忆 The Memory Lost In Space will be adapted into an English series and feature film, which I would also be interested to see. Speaking of which, 阿晴小朋友吖 made the comment on the Tong Hua Weibo forum that she had imagined countless times how Xiao Yao would have reacted if she found Xiang Liu's hidden message and knew everything that he had sacrificed for her. She then drew the parallels to characters in The Memory Lost In Space (殷南昭 Yin Nanzhao and 骆寻 Luo Xun/Luo Lan who loved each other through several lifetimes). During a life and death confrontation, YNZ was killed but Luo Lan survived. She would find out many years later from his killer that his target was YNZ all along but he was not confident he could take YNZ down. Thus, his shot was aimed at her, gambling on the fact that despite being fully capable of evading his attack, YNZ would willingly put himself in the line of the shot in order to protect her. And he did.
When TH was writing this novel, it was in serialized form (like I think all of her previous novels) - she released it chapter by chapter online.
Incidentally, I believe I might have solved the mystery of the novel having a serialised form.
All initial publications of Tong Hua's novels were released volume by volume, and Lost You Forever was no different. The following were the original publication dates:
Vol 1 - March 2013
Vol 2 - July 2013
Vol 3 - August 2013
As such, there is definitely a likelihood that Tong Hua might have created a poll in between the release of the volumes (possibly between Vols 1 and 2, since there was a 4-month gap in between). However, I still wonder how she could have expected to revise the rest of the novel if her fans had voted for Xiang Liu to confess his feelings? Hmmm.
Anyway, there you have it. The comment you read probably did not mean a serialised form released online chapter by chapter, but a volume by volume publication of the novel itself.
. However, I still wonder how she could have expected to revise the rest of the novel if her fans had voted for Xiang Liu to confess his feelings? Hmmm.
Anyway, there you have it. The comment you read probably did not mean a serialised form released online chapter by chapter, but a volume by volume publication of the novel itself.
The main romantic storyline was in Vol 2 and Vol 3 which was published very close to each other (only 1 month different). And it took time for censorship, licensing and publishcation plan. Therefore, that 1 month difference could not impact the outcome of Vol 3 at all.
blabla100:
The turning point IMO was not actually Jing's promise, but the fact that XY was not WXL anymore.
I think this would be more convincing for me if she wasn't already considering Jing as a potential forever companion even before everything went down with CX dragging her back to Hao Ling, and if she didn't already accept the 15-year promise with Jing. I think the fact that once she regains her girl status she immediately accepts Jing's offer and essentially chucks XL aside (that is if she ever seriously considered him in the first place, which I personally don't think she did) just showed me that the choice was always hers to make. And she was always driven by minimizing her potential losses.
It was quite clearly said what XY wanted during her conversation with her grandfather in chapter 16:
- When she was a man (as WXL), she just needed companion. And due to scare of being abandoned, she chose weak, underdog people who needed her and would not leave her; and temporary companion was ok.
- When she was back in woman form (as XY), she wanted someone who always placed her as the first choice, never left her.
She set the boundary condition and in her POV, XL had been never been taken as candidate. And I don't think that XY thought of Jing as potential forever companion when she accepted the 15 year promise.
1. She was still in male form by that point (althought Jing knew that she was a girl and she behaved girly at that point). There was no certainty that her true identity would be discovered. She did not know how to revert to her original, true appearance. I always think that she only thought of being herself as a girl when she regained her true form in chapter 12. And since then she took the approach for long term future.
2. WXL had consistent thought and worries about taking Jing as her companion. And the promise of 15 year is the trial, pre-condition for her to see if Jing could be a forever companion. Her inner thought in chapter 8 showed that she just considered him as tool/helper to return to the old style of living (a temporary companion). Her conversations with CX, with Jing (in chapter 10 about what would happen after 15 years), and the later one with CX in chapter 47 showed that she was a bit of suddent, emotional mood (Jing discovered her girl side and his thought about Hou which in XY's POV proved that Jing was kind, tolerate person and his heart was unchanged because of hardship). She took the gamble that Jing was might be the one who met her condition (just by that point) but she did not trust his promise at all because of her negativity. Moreover, this promise gave her reason to supress the growing feeling/stirring that she had for XL.
Therefore, in tern of what XY wanted and behaved, I was quite in agreement with @Blabla100. However, I had difference opinion about XL's interpretation of XY's rejection at the beach in chapter 13 which I wrote some days ago. And I don't see that XL always push her away. The fact is their steps and romantic progress didn't synchronize. When XL was willing to move forward, she retreated. And when XY finally had some gut (and decreased her requirements for partner), he had already withdrew. And the reason for his withdrawal is XY was not matured, strong enough to deal with their difficult circumstances and potential of his departure with the defeat of Shen Nong army. We have talked about XY's mindset of gain and loss several time. Actually, XL probably had thought a lot for XY about gain and loss too. He cared for her future. He only understood the feeling of losing loved one, feeling of "scarier than death" when he experienced her assasination. Thus when the defeat outcome of Shen-nong army became inevitable (after CX became Xuan Yuan King), he completely made his mind and stepped away.
P/S: Shen nong army could only survise if Gaoxin was in balance with Xuan Yuan. XL had observed Gaoxin, CX and Ah Nian for many years. He could predicted that CX would become ruler of Gaoxin one day due to Grand Emperor's strategy of not choosing successor, Ah Nian's feeling and desire and CX's ambition and willingness of political marriage. Thus that was why in chapter 29 he made all sort of statemant about temporary companion, best ending for a general, repeating her words of "not suitable for worman"
So no, I personally don't believe XL accepted the bug because he visualised a committed relationship with XY and if that bug wasn't already în CX, I don't believe he would have agreed to it.
I agree that having the PLB in CX forced XL to honestly consider what he wanted in a relationship with WXL. Whether or not XL would have agreed to accept the PLB without this forcing function is up for debate. The fact the WXL planted the PLB in CX to help XL get medicine for the Chenrong resistance army most likely factored into XL falling for WXL and/or feeling indebted to WXL enough to accept the PLB.
That said, in accepting the PLB, I do think XL could visualize a committed relationship with WXL. The meaning of a committed relationship is different for different people. Being in a committed relationship doesn't require you to prioritize your partner above all else, even if it means compromising your principles. It doesn't even necessarily mean a monogamous relationship, as it seems polygamy was acceptable in their world. Those were XY's requirements for a committed relationship, not XL's.
I think XL was willing and looking forward to spending the rest of his life accompanying WXL to alleviate each other's loneliness, and that's how he defined a committed relationship. As far as he knew at the time, that was also WXL's definition of a committed relationship. WXL had previously made it known that he feared loneliness and that short-term accompaniment was fine.
l also believe that XL was hoping for more than just a platonic relationship with WXL, considering the romantic tension between them and XL's expressed interest in seeing WXL's true form. Would XL have been willing to have a monogamous relationship and even start a family with WXL? I don't think either of those conditions would have been deal breakers for XL as long as WXL was willing to accept that XL's fate was tied to the fate of the Chenrong resistance army.
It wasn't until WXL turned into XY that XL had to contend with the reality that not only were they on opposing sides, but his own definition of a committed relationship wasn't the same as XY's definition. At this point, XL would have had to reevaluate what to expect from this relationship with XY. He ultimately decided that while he could commit himself to loving, protecting, and preparing XY for a life without him, he didn't want to risk harming her by having her commit herself to him.
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