Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 blabla100:

Despite the scenes you posted of XY missing and crying over Jing, honestly IMO that doesn't actually prove that she loved him romantically or on the same level as she loved XL.

Fair enough. I certainly agree that her feelings for the two are quite different. 

The amazing thing about this story is that it seems like almost nothing can be "proved" to every reader / viewer's satisfaction. No matter how clear it might feel at first glance, there always seems to be someone who has an alternative interpretation. ^^

 blimarch:

Interlude just to share my pain: I was happily rereading a section of the novel when suddenly....

Chapter 34

Hou suddenly asked “Do you have time tomorrow? Tomorrow a s.h.i.+pment of raw gems will arrive, are you interested in seeing what it looks like in its original state?” 

 Xiao Yao c.o.c.ked her head and stared at him before smiling and laying it out in the open “You must know that Jing likes me.” 

 Hou smiled back and decided to take a step back in his approach “If you’ve decided to marry him then I take back what I just said.” 

Xiao Yao smiled “Fang Feng Bei taught me archery and died in a shower of arrows. If you’re not afraid of death then I don’t mind going with you to see the raw gems.”

So now, my evening is ruined (so much for the foreshadowing writing technique!).

Sorry, back to the Lover's bug.

I know, it's so heartbreaking that the story that they came up with to explain away the "death" of XL's alter ego ended up foreshadowing the manner of his actual death. </3

 H19279:

In the drama, the subtittles in Vietnamese was translated as following

In the case of 2 people have no affection with each other .....

But even if it (aka the bug) is planted forcibly, there will be serious consequences.  It is not only impossible to have the same life fate, but also be bitten back by the bugs, which is life-threatening

P/s:  In the beginning I translated is as "Not only do they not have the same life fate, but they can also be bitten back by the bug"

However, all the sentences in that conversation have no subject. So it is not clear if it's applied to both partners or only one of them. That is why I changed the sentence as above. In addtion, The phrase they do not have the same life fate can be understood as they do not share/connect lives together

The actual Chinese subtitles for Ep12 and my translation/interpretation is as follows:

离戎老伯：传说中有一种极其难养的雌雄蛊。一雌一雄，力量相当。施蛊者便无法控制蛊虫。这种情况大都是女子养来种给情郎的，求的是一心一意，永不相负。一旦种上，便同命连心，生死相随，所以又叫做情蛊。
相柳：如果彼此无情，能种蛊吗。
离戎老伯：哎呦，不行不行不行。不过蛊术之道神秘莫测，也许能种吧。但即便勉强种下也是后患无穷，不但不能同命连心，还可能被蛊虫反噬，危及性命啊。
相柳：怎么解蛊
离戎老伯：种蛊要靠情意，解蛊也要靠情意。如果种蛊时间不长，趁其根基未稳，也可能将蛊移到另一个人身上。但另一个人必须心中有情才行。情蛊这东西啊，不但要命还要心。你命是有九条，但心只有一颗。一旦给了出去，可就再也收不回来了

LROM: Legend has it there are male-female poisonous bugs which are very difficult to cultivate. One is male, the other is female, with equal power. The one who raises them cannot control the poisonous bug. Mostly women raise it for their lovers, hoping for a love that is wholly devoted, never betraying each other. Once it is planted, the couple's hearts and fates/lives are joined, living and dying together. As such, it is also called love poisonous bug.
XL: If there is no love between the couple, would it be possible to plant the bug?
LROM: No, no, no. However, the art of poisonous bugs is mysterious and unpredictable. Perhaps it is possible. Even so, forcibly planting it will lead to endless troubles. Not only are they unable to join their hearts together and share the same fates/lives, but the poisonous bugs may retaliate against them and harm their lives.
XL: How can they be removed?
LROM: Its planting relies on love, as does its removal. If it has not been planted for long, it is possible to transfer it to another person while its foundation has not yet stabilised. However, the other person must have love in his heart. The love poisonous bug demands not only your life but your heart. You have nine lives, but only one heart. Once your heart is given, you can never take it back.

My interpretation of "同命" in 同命连心 is that if improperly planted, they are unable to share the same fate or lives, living and dying at the same time. However, because it was improperly planted, it also means that their lives are at risk anyway, while not necessarily dying at the same time because the bugs will still retaliate against them.

EDIT: I just saw your subsequent message
"It means it's impossible for the couple to live or die together in term of time  (meaning at the same time).It doesn't mean they live together at the same place "

Looks like we have a similar interpretation after all.

 AH :

In my headcanon, it's not a question of how far any physical intimacy goes with another person. It's a question of whether that intimacy affects the love that the host in question has for the other host.

No matter how much XY kisses TSJ and no matter what FFB gets up to with other pretty ladies, the bugs will remain Lovers' Bugs as long as they both still carry love for each other in their hearts.

Yes, I see where you are coming from. For me it's physical intimacy can be seen as a betrayal and a change of heart by proxy. I'm not as adamant about the physical betrayal aspect of this as I am with the change of heart = falling out of love and/or loving another person in a romantic sense (other kinds of loves are OK). There's not much in the novel to draw a firmer conclusion for me.

 AH :

In this interpretation, is XL actively avoiding intercourse himself, and banking on TSJ and XY not doing the deed?

Yes, if he knows the workings of the bugs then he would abstain. Back then, sex before marriage was very much frowned upon and members of prominent families are especially strict about it, so he probably feels reasonably confident that Jing and XY won't go that far. And I can't believe I'm speculating on fictional characters sex lives :-)

 AH :

I don't think she fully grasps the full scope of what XL can feel through the connection. She knows he can feel her pain and heartache, but I don't think she knows that he can feel all of her emotions and other sensations.

I still think that she's really thoughtless. Now that I'm entertaining the thoughts that she knows more about the Lovers Bugs than she claims, it just leaves me with a not-so-positive opinion of her :-(.

 AH :

Yes, I am relying on the English subtitles for the drama, which are definitely far from perfect. So I truly appreciate any insights / clarifications provided by Mandarin speakers or from speakers of languages that are much closer to Mandarin (in terms of roots and cultural context). They are incredibly helpful!

I'm wondering whether this is where some of our different interpretations came from. I'm watching and reading this story in Vietnamese. My experience has been that the Vietnamese translation of Chinese dramas and literature is better compared to English. There are words and cultural contexts that are similar, while difficult to convey in English.

We will need to wait for liddi, to get the actual Mandarin translation, though.

ETA: speaking of the devil :-). Welcome back @liddi

 AH :

"They / their" in this case would be a couple that didn't have love between them where the bug was forcibly planted in them anyway, right? 

Yes - the couple where the bug was improperly planted, in other words the ones that did not have love between them. 

 AH :

From what I gather, these risks are the risks that XL would think that WXL was facing as a result of forcibly planting the bug in CX (even if there was mutual love between them that meant the bug could be planted by WXL in CX without issue, XL would have no reason to think that there would be such love between them). And (I hope) it's not intended to imply that these are the risks that XL and XY faced because there was no love between them when the bug was transferred from CX to XL.

Does that align with your understanding?

Yes, that is my interpretation. At the time, he did not know Xiao Liu's real identity, and her relationship with Cang Xuan, but even without knowing it, he knows for certain Cang Xuan did not willingly accept the bug, which would mean that it is improperly planted, putting Xiao Liu's life at risk since the bug will retaliate in such situations.  However, we know (from the novel and the drama) that the bug was properly planted in Xiang Liu because the walnut disappeared after it was moved from Cang Xuan to Xiang Liu, which is affirmation that there is love between Xiao Liu and Xiang Liu.

 H19279:

My initial interpretion is that they had their lives and heart (the heart itself) connected meaning he could feel her physical pain (1/9); her heart beat and heartache (1/1) and emotions that connected to heart beat (I means if you are happy, your heart beat may increase --> he could guess/predict her emotion). Many XL die-hard fans critized XY and TH that they tortured him since he could feel all of her emotions and excitement etc. I thought the reason they thought so is because of interpretation of connected heart. In Chinese, the word heart (心 ) also means soul, mind, emotion.

Reading chapter 37 again, I found that the voodoo king said the lovers' bug allows the couple to share their life fate (live & death fate) and connect emotions.

I think it does seem to work as one heart and one mind and one soul, shared between two people.

 H19279:

What is the best understanding of heart connection? Does it include all emotion or specific emotion that links to heart or links to pain?

I would feel sorry for him if he could feel or sense all of her emotion. It would distract him like hell.

The dude has 9 heads.  I think he's used to handling multiple tracks and inputs, all at one time. :)

I think what is 'torture' for XL is when XY is sad or heart breaking.  But I don't think when she feels happy or pleasure it is necessarily painful for XL, because I don't think he feels jealous over her affections, like Jing does.  First, he's secure in their love.  Second, he can't afford to be jealous like that, as THAT signals betrayal.  Jealousy is NOT a sign of love, it's a sign of possession.

He wants her to be happy and experience life, even if he can't be the one to give her those experiences.  And through the bug, at least he can share those positive experiences WITH her.

 AH :

In my headcanon, it's not a question of how far any physical intimacy goes with another person. It's a question of whether that intimacy affects the love that the host in question has for the other host.

No matter how much XY kisses TSJ and no matter what FFB gets up to with other pretty ladies, the bugs will remain Lovers' Bugs as long as they both still carry love for each other in their hearts. 

I agree with this interpretation. The shaman king also says this in the novel:

巫王的脸皱成了一团，说道：“要么同心而生，要么离心而死，情人蛊一旦种下，无法可解...”
The shaman king's face wrinkled up. "They either live because their hearts are one, or die because their hearts are no longer one. Once the lover's bug is planted, it cannot be removed...."  

As such, the crux lies in the unchanging love the couple have for each other in their hearts, regardless of whether there is physical intimacy with someone else other than the one the bug was planted in.

It is ironic because Xiang Liu went in, fully knowing that if there was a risk of dying because of a heart that has changed and no longer has love, he was the one most at risk in the event she stopped loving him, while Xiao Liu was always secure in that sense.