@windiaaa041293

The poem quoted by your article is "The Partridge's Sky" by famed Song poet Yan Jidao 晏几道:

鹧鸪天                                   - 晏几道
The Partridge's Sky       by Yan Jidao    

彩袖殷勤捧玉钟,Colorful sleeves attentively carried a jade goblet;
当年拼却醉颜红。That time, I didn't mind letting my face be flushed with wine,
舞低杨柳楼心月,She danced the moon down below the willows in the mansion,
歌尽桃花扇底风。And sang her peach blossom fan out of air.


从别后,忆相逢,Since we parted, remembering our meeting,
几回魂梦与君同。How many times have our souls met in the same dreams?
今宵剩把银釭照,Tonight, I hold up a silver lamp to shine on you,
犹恐相逢是梦中Fearing still that this meeting is in a dream.


In a short song of 55 characters, Yan Jidao has provided a rather complete account of his relationship with a singing girl from their first encounter, to their yearning for each other after parting, and finally to their reunion. The opening two lines describe their first meeting: the girl was holding a luxurious goblet attentively urging her guests to drink, and the poet -the speaker in the poem- most willingly allowed himself to get drunk. The next two lines describe the sight of the girl dancing and singing for him almost the whole night through at that meeting.
...
In the beginning two lines of the second stanza, the poet tells us that after he parted from the girl, he has remembered their meeting. His remembering efforts have several times resulted in dreams which obviously represent the fulfillment of his wish for reunion with his girl friend. Here he describes on purpose the reunion of their dream souls to indicate that their love for each other is genuine and not one-sided.
...
The concluding two lines offer a twist. The poet says that they meet again after a long separation, but this time he holds a lamp to shine upon her, for fear that they have met in a dream.
...
The endings in both Du Fu's and Yan Jidao's poems describe their experience of fear that the reality they are facing may be simply an illusion.

cr. "Through a Window of Dreams: Reality and Illusion in the Song Lyrics of the Song Dynasty ", by Shuen-fu Lin, University of Michigan


Let me try and understand what the article is telling me. 

Are you saying that when Xiang Liu restored Xiao Yao back to life after her suicide attempt, she was in a state of consciousness even though she was not physically awake, similar to the 37 years under the ocean? And that she remained conscious throughout the entire time Xiang Liu healed her, and later removed the lover's bug from her? 

The novel says this:

Xiang Liu held Xiao Yao in his arms and sat cross-egged on the white seashell. Biting the tip of his tongue, he fed Xiao Yao his heart's essential blood. The lovers bug enables lives to share the same fates and connects hearts. As long as breath remained, life could be extended with the merging of essential blood.
...
Lie Yang was aware of Xiao Yao's unusual physique. When he saw what Xiang Liu was doing with Xiao Yao, he thought that Xiang Liu was absorbing her spiritual energy to cultivate some form of demonic power. Roaring with rage, he struck Xiang Liu on the back with his palm.
This was the critical moment to awaken Xiao Yao, so Xiang Liu dared not move and could only endure the attack. Fortunately, Sir Bi's careful nature sensed something was not right, and stepped in to protect him.
"What are you doing?" Lie Yang roared in fury at Sir Bi, intending to attack Xiang Liu once more.
Sir Bi grabbed hold of Lie Yang, and telepathically said, "He does not appear to be harming Xiao Yao. Xiao Yao's life signs are increasingly stronger."
Lie Yang was a demon bird cultivated from the powers of **Yu Abyss and Tang Gorge, his eyes and ears far sharper than spiritually powerful deities. He checked carefully. It was just as Sir Bi described. Xiao Yao's life signs were getting stronger. Lie Yang grumbled, "It is strange! Whatever it is, it can't be anything good!" but he dared not move recklessly anymore. Instead, he remained on the surface of the water, protecting Xiang Liu's formation.
After some time, Xiang Liu emerged from the water with Xiao Yao in his arms, and said to Lie Yang and Sir Bi, "Thank you both for your assistance."
Lie Yang held out his hands and returned coldly, "Give Xiao Yao back to us."
Xiang Liu lowered his head to gaze at Xiao Yao without a word or movement, letting Lie Yang take her from his arms.
Although Xiao Yao's breathing seemed normal, Sir Bi still held her wrist and used his spiritual power to check her body. Sure enough, everything was normal. 
By right, Xiao Yao should have been able to wake up now, except Xiang Liu appeared to want her to stay in a deep slumber, and had deliberately cast a spell on her, sealing her consciousness.
Sir Bi told Lie Yang, "Bring Xiao Yao back to the room to rest. She should wake up by tomorrow."

[Xiang Liu then goes on to erase the memories from the shengsheng mirror and kill the lovers bug ]

-- Vol 3 Ch15   (Chapter 48)

** Yu Abyss is the place where the sun sets, as opposed to Tang Gorge where the sun rises

***********************************************

王母道:“小夭昏迷时,我发现她体内有蛊,帮她解了,你们没意见吧?”
...
小夭心中滋味难辨,其实早在相柳行刺颛顼,却杀了丰隆时,她已经以血还债,和相柳恩断义绝,但听到两人最后的一点联系
在她不知道时就被斩断了,还是有些说不清道不明的怅惘。小夭嘲讽自己,人家自始至终不过是把你看作了一枚棋子,你有什么好怅惘的?难道怅惘他的冷酷无情吗?
The Royal Mother said, "While Xiao Yao was unconscious, I discovered a poisonous bug in her body and helped her remove it. You shouldn't have any objections, right?"
...
Xiao Yao did not know what to feel. When Xiang Liu tried to assassinate Cang Xuan but killed Feng Long instead, she had repaid her debt to Xiang Liu with blood and severed all ties with him. However, when she heard that the last vestiges of their bond was broken 
without her being aware of it, there was still an inexplicable sense of loss from the sadness. Xiao Yao mocked herself, "He only saw you as a chess piece from the start, so what do you have to feel bereft over? Are you actually sad over his cold heartlessness?"

-- Vol 3 Ch17  (Chapter 50)


If the article claims that she was conscious throughout the entire time, how could she not know that the lover's bug was removed, and why did she believe that it was removed by the Royal Mother? The text specifically said that Xiang Liu was in the process of waking her up at the time. I am of the opinion that this time round, he kept her heart beating long enough for A Nian to arrange for the seashell to be brought to the crystal cave at Guixu sea, which would sustain her life. He then went through the same process again of healing her as he did those 37 years, except her life was not so far gone compared to the Plum Forest assassination, and he could wake her up a lot faster. Since he had no intention of letting her know he was the one who saved her (remember the promise he exacted from Sir Bi, citing the reason that she already swore never to see him again in her lifetime), he sealed her consciousness and kept her asleep even though she was physically healed, until he could complete everything he set out to do - removing the memories, and killing the lover's bug that bound them both.

In addition, the last line in the poem "犹恐相逢是梦中 Fearing that the meeting is in a dream" was adapted as the title of Vol 3 Ch16 (Chapter 49) "相逢犹恐是梦中 A meeting that is feared to be in a dream". In this chapter, she had awoken from her slumber, mistook Lie Yang for Xiang Liu because she definitely could guess that he must have kept her alive using the lovers bug connection, railed at him for not allowing her to die, clearly with no idea that the lovers bug was no longer in her. There is no more mention of Xiang Liu after this, and the reunion that did take place in this chapter was with Jing, whom she thought had died.  And the text that describes this reunion is as follows:

小夭神情恍惚,犹如做梦一般,一步步走下了祭台,朝着璟走去,侍女们看王母没有反对的意思,陆陆续续收起了桃花杖。

直到站在了璟面前,小夭依旧不敢相信,她哆哆嗦嗦地伸出手,抚摸着璟的脸颊:“璟,真的是你吗?
Dazed, Xiao Yao walked step by step down the altar 
as if in a dream, and moved towards Jing. Seeing no objection from the Royal Mother, the maids kept the peach blossom branches one after another.

Even when she stood before Jing, Xiao Yao still dared not believe [this was real]. She reached out a trembling hand to caress his cheek. "Jing, is it really you?"

-- Vol 3 Ch16  (Chapter 49), "相逢犹恐是梦中 A meeting that is feared to be in a dream"


Can you please explain your interpretation from the article, because I cannot see how it could be possible?

 AH :
Koala seems to have chosen "arms" for her translation

Be careful with Kaola translation. I think it based on 2013 edition. The website that I used for copying English excerpt used the same translation with kaola (I've checked many parts). English translator is not always correct (so did the vietnamese translator). In addition, TH made quite some changes the text in 2019 edition. 

@liddi 

怀 can refer to bosom or being in someone's arms. In this case, it should refer to bosom

 I find  bosom (so it located in the chest area) more reasonable. In the Vietnamese translation, it refers to the area from the upper belly to the chest (the front part of upper body)

 liddi:
Can you please explain your interpretation from the article, because I cannot see how it could be possible?

In my previous post, I raised the question about XY's stage of mind. I think she was unconscious after he fed her blood (similar to the last treatment in 37 year), so she didn't know he undid the bug. But she might conscious (her mind) before his blood feeding. I did compare her physical properties between chapter 22 and chapter 48.

About the poem, I find it very confusing, because everything up till "Fearing still that this meeting is in a dream" points to XL, not to Jing.  The poison she kept feeding him with, the willow, the moon, their dreamy aura, their parting, even her meeting with FFB, it was in a pleasure house, same as the dancer... Idk, this poem doesn't  scream Jing to me, but Idk, I am confused.

 AH :
XL extend his hand to XY when she is on Furball's back and he is in the middle of the ocean. Even though XY was a great swimmer, we know from chapter 13 that if XL had left her stranded in the middle of the ocean, she might not have been able to survive. And yet, without hesitation, she took his hand and joined him on the ocean's surface. She trusted him to not abandon her and to return her safely to shore. Even though she has trust / abandonment issues, and even though it was very early on in the story.

Yes! Beautifully said, thank you.

 AH :
And nothing compares to being in the middle of the ocean at night. The ocean and the night sky are so vast, and a single person is comparatively so miniscule. 

Exactly. The drama beautifully captures the quiet companionship, the meeting of two lonely souls bathing in the glorious beauty of the sight before them, and I love it. 

The novel on the other hand, has an added element of implicit trust in him in this strange, frightening world around her where everything is uncertain, making the view all the more precious when it finally appeared. 

No matter which version, I wish the shengsheng mirror could have brought them back to the way it was during this time, their companionship and trust simple and true, before their lives changed beyond recognition.

 H19279:

In my previous post, I raised the question about XY's stage of mind. I think she was unconscious after he fed her blood (similar to the last treatment in 37 year), so she didn't know he undid the bug. But she might conscious (her mind) before his blood feeding. I did compare her physical properties between chapter 22 and chapter 48.

That is a possibility. Assuming she was conscious, she would know that Xiang Liu came and saved her yet again instead of letting her (and by extension himself??) die. That would explain why he had to seal her consciousness and put her in a deep sleep after he had healed her physically, because he knew she was conscious prior to that.

However, it still does not answer my question why the article claimed that Xiang Liu did not really put her under a sleeping spell, when the text describing Xiao Yao indicates that he did do so.

 HLCYXNFILMS:
I read the book only after watching S1 so, I wasn't aware of the scenes they cut; for S2, while I understand they have to cut or rewrite specific scenes because of censorship, I really hope they won't give his scenes to other characters. I love other characters as well but really, each of them already have their own iconic scenes - hopefully, there isn't any shifts... 

Totally agree with what you said. While not ideal, I can even accept a more watered down version of a scene, but I truly balk at taking what belonged to one character and giving it to another. And the whole theme of the narrative skewed beyond recognition, negating 2 out of 3 things Xiang Liu gave his all to ensure, just because they decided to change the plot or give what he did to another character. That really rubs me the wrong way. Hopefully all fears are unfounded and my hair and eyes remain intact when S2 does air. Fingers crossed!

 liddi:
@windiaaa041293

The poem quoted by your article is "The Partridge's Sky" by famed Song poet Yan Jidao 晏几道:

@Windiaaa041293 & @Liddi and other

Tong Hua for sure wanted to tell something via the chapter titles. I read some interpretation of some. What I realize is the poems that TH used can be interpretated in different ways. It is quite ambiguous. At the first glance it can be easily linked to XY-Jing or XY-CX. but in many chapter if we look deeper, it can also tell something about XY-XL. Similar way that XY hid XL in her heart and mention Jing to cover it.  

The conversation between XL and XY were written in similar style. Many conversations had double meaning. And it seems that XL and XY both understood the metaphor even incomplete sentences. 

As mentioned in one of Windaaa041293, when expert removed the masking elements of the novel, it shows another story. 

My interpretation of that poem "the patridge's sky" is 

- Literal meaning: everyone thinks the title refers Jing's return. his return was unreal as if it's a dream. That is very clear. However, he returned, he would not disappear again. Then it would not a dream anymore. It became reality. 

- Beneath meaning: This is a man watching his admired girl. Can it refer to XL seeing XY the last time. She was sleeping at night. This matches the event when XL saved her and removed the bug. Additionally, there is some key words in the poem pointing to them: Willow (LIU - Xiang Liu) and Peach blossom (for XY), the moon; 

"the silver light to shine on you"  XY was "sleeping" under pearl light inside the giant shell

"How many times have our souls met in the same dreams?": They shared the heart connection. Over many night, he shared her heartache. It's not mentioned how many time XY thought of him in sleepless nights, but she felt relieved, knowing that XL also understood via the heart connection.  

@Liddi: Thank you for the great translation of the poem. I can understand it now. Do you know the metaphor of the poem title "The Partridge's Sky" . I remember this type of bird is used in ancient literature for certain meaning. But I could not remember. There is no bird in the poem. why did it have that name?

 H19279:
Tong Hua for sure wanted to tell something via the chapter titles. I read some interpretation of some. What I realize is the poems that TH used can be interpretated in different ways. It is quite ambiguous. At the first glance it can be easily linked to XY-Jing or XY-CX. but in many chapter if we look deeper, it can also tell something about XY-XL. Similar way that XY hid XL in her heart and mention Jing to cover it.  

You give a compelling argument as to how elements in the poem can be attributed to Xiang Liu as well as Jing. Good points about the references to the willow, peach blossoms, silver lamp, the moon, silver lamp.

However the issue I have with this argument is that no one reading the book without a knowledge of classics or specifically the entire poem, would know about all these extra elements. The title literally refers only to the last line of the poem, which is a fear that the reunion is not real, but merely a dream. And this title does not belong to the chapter where Xiang Liu healed her and killed the lovers bug, but the following chapter which clearly shows Jing's return into Xiao Yao's life. As such, I am still of the opinion that the title refers to Xiao Yao and Jing's reunion.

 H19279:
@Liddi: Thank you for the great translation of the poem. I can understand it now

Thank you but the translation does not belong to me. My Chinese literacy is no where near the level to accurately translate classics, and I won't dare try without running the risk of mistranslation. As stated in my original post, the translated poem and the explanation of the poem is from an article "Through a Window of Dreams: Reality and Illusion in the Song Lyrics of the Song Dynasty ", by Shuen-fu Lin, University of Michigan 

To me the poem makes me think of chapter 20, when XY drank quite a lot and sang the forever togheter never apart song under the moonlight în front of Jing. Now re-reading that chapter, I can't help but wonder if she really sang that song for Jing, I mea  what drove her to pick a sad ballad when things were starting to get better between them?  Why the repetead mention of the full moon and her willow dance? Why the mention that despite having a high tolerance for alchohol, this time her mind was addled too?  Also, they were în a forest or something similar to a forest, she first sang that song when she met XL for the first time, în the forest... I don't quite remember, but was she really that into Jing în chapter 20?

Chapter 20

"I’ll sing a mountain ballad for you guys!

Before they could answer Xiao Yao start singing.

Xiao Yao sang a song about a woman who was missing her beloved and longing for him and wanting only to be together for all of eternity.

The final verse she sang three times: together forever, never apart.

It was a clear night with few clouds, the moon bright and the stars dim. Within the evergreen forest, the flowers and trees were glittering and the fragrance wafted over them. Xiao Yao sang and danced as lithe as the willow and as light as the spring water. She moved along with the moon and when she sang the final verse three times, she put all her heart into it and her voice was as lingering as silk in the air.

For a moment all three listening were in a daze.

Xiao Yao sat back down and felt her face was burning hot and her heart was beating fast. Xiao Yao put her head in her hand and laughed “My head is so dizzy, this whole table is wobbly.”

Xing Yue sighed “It really is like what Gege said, drinking is really more fun after getting drunk.” She raised a cup “Xiao Yao, a toast to you. 

 Xiao Yao drunkenly picked up her cup and gulped down her wine.

Xiao Yao had a high tolerance and even when she was drunk physically her mind remained clear. But today even her mind was addled. Xing Yue started step dancing and called Xiao Yao to join her.

Xiao Yao stood up to go when her knees buckled and she pitched backward into Jing’s arms. Xiao Yao smiled at Jing and there was laughter in his eyes. Xiao Yao wanted to reach out to touch his brows but her eyes closed and she fell asleep."

 liddi:
However the issue I have with this argument is that no one reading the book without a knowledge of classics or specifically the entire poem, would know about all these extra elements. The title literally refers only to the last line of the poem, which is a fear that the reunion is not real, but merely a dream

That is exactly the thing - Tong Hua's intention. People need to dig in. It is similar to we see XY loved Jing on the surface but  XY hid her love to XL. TH deliberately hid XL and his emotion in the book(#). There are many empty space in the novel.  I partly can understand why TH said LYF is her best work in term of writing. I think in some of the analysis sent by Windaaa0409.. they mention the "grass snake, gray line", "writing without writing" and the "Autumn and Spring" technique. 

In one of the most famous poem story in Vietnam, the author used tons of known-stories, images, classics (from Chinese literature). Without the explanation appendix, normal people can't understand. So I don't know if the complete book of LYF included full poems in the appendix. 

(#): It is super rare to know his feeling/emotion via the endless stream of power in chapter 22 if that came from him which I am convinced it is

 H19279:
In one of the most famous poem story in Vietnam, the author used tons of known-stories, images. Without the explanation appendix, normal people can't understand. So I don't know if the complete book of LYF included full poems in the appendix. 

No. At the very least, my copy which is the latest edition, does not have any details of classic poems that are referenced in the text. What the appendices only contain are the names of special characters, places or creatures, particularly those that are seen in the Mountain and Sea Classics, the universe from which Lost You Forever and Once Promised is based off.

As such, I am still hard pressed to accept that the unreferenced stanzas in the poem are meant to be the hidden meaning of the novel. It is one thing to extrapolate what is hinted at but never specifically described in the novel, but it is another thing altogether to refer to unseen lines of a classic poem and expect the reader to infer from them. 

 liddi:
I am still hard pressed to accept that the unreferenced stanzas in the poem are meant to be the hidden meaning of the novel

We can revert this question: why did TH have to make the title of each chapter as such and linked to other famous source? and how coincident that the linked content also fit the story in LYF? Why did she just make a normal title like a statement with more or less similar meaning.  If she preferred to quote from famous poem or story, there should be many works which contains similar lines. 

From some poems that I read so far (in other chapters) it's very clear that the choice of poem is selective and on target. Most of the poem that I have read is about the story between XL and XY. 

Probably I should really read "dream of red chamber" to see if similar approach was used. I heard that in China there is specialism on "dream of the red chamber" 

 H19279:
We can revert this question: why did TH have to make the title of each chapter as such and linked to other famous source? Just make a statement with more or less similar meaning. Probably I should really read "dream of red chamber" to see if similar approach was used. 

If that were the case, then only readers who have knowledge of the classics are able to glean the full meaning of what she is trying to imply, which certainly excludes me. As such, I can only infer from what hints I can see from the text itself, and not some unseen lines from poems of bygone years which I never read, and probably would not understand without someone to explain it to me.

Time to go back to school...