wrote: Why didn't I start studying languages earlier?
sometimes I ask myself that too. Kids pick up a language so fast, but on the other hand they also dont take it very serious or think it as very useful (well, thats how i was...)
my dads mother tongue is a language only 30'000 people are left speaking it. I am really disappointed that he didnt bring me up bilingual. that would have been so cool.... but well you cant change the past...
I was born in New Guinea and spoke two native languages before finally learning English - my parents' native language. We moved to Australia and I have now forgotten most of my first two languages, much to my regret. No one in my family spoke my first language (I learnt it off our housegirl - who was like a mother to me) and my parents didn't speak the second language once we arrived in Australia. So now I speak, write and think in English as if it were my first language.
XJie wrote: Many MDL members are not from a country where English is the primary language, yet the forum is almost exclusively English language. How did everyone learn English? Did you learn it as a child? From your family? School? How did you practice? Do most people in your country speak English as a second language?
For example, I'm in the US, so English is my first language, but I am also from Florida, where Spanish is equally as common. I learned Spanish in pre-school, but am no longer fluent because I haven't practiced in forever. My family is very mixed, and English is the primary language spoken. Some of my cousins speak Spanish and Portuguese though.
What about you?
I learnt in School .. later on, it got a lot better as i read a lot of novels... I also used to speak english with friends .. when i was in 10th grade, some of our teachers used to speak english but not all ... when i came to Canada , everyone was surprised how i have a clear accent :P but they didnt know that i can forge accents ;) ...
i didnt know in florida Spanishn is equally common ... interesting :)
SweetKattyQQ wrote: I was born in New Guinea and spoke two native languages before finally learning English - my parents' native language. We moved to Australia and I have now forgotten most of my first two languages, much to my regret. No one in my family spoke my first language (I learnt it off our housegirl - who was like a mother to me) and my parents didn't speak the second language once we arrived in Australia. So now I speak, write and think in English as if it were my first language.
Since i'm also also originated from africa, i'm curious to know what your two native languages are?
Oh gosh, let's face it: the United States and foreign language education do not mix. I'll try not to make this too long, but I make no definite promises on that one--
1) Unlike Europe, the US is linguistically isolated. We have Canada up top, which apart from Quebec is predominantly English-speaking, and the Spanish/Portuguese speaking Latin America below us; in other words, we're not surrounded by great linguistic variety. The majority of Americans I would say have never been to, and probably never will, travel outside of the US, especially given the current economic clime, and so learning an exotic language one will never use must seem like a waste of an education to many.
2) The US got some mad privilege, and we take English for granted because of it. I know TOO MANY people here who are often shocked and even annoyed when they come across a foreigner who barely speaks English. I guess given that English has become the lingua franca of the contemporary world, many Americans have this assumption that everyone in non-English-speaking countries is taught the language to near fluency, and since Americans already know English, why bother learning another? We treat English like a skeleton key, an all-access pass, and ignore that using English can actually hinder cross-cultural understanding since much of a culture is actually conveyed through its language and, thus, much of it gets lost in translation. (Lost in Translation is a GREAT movie, by the way, about culture shock and alienation set in Tokyo; yes, it's an English-language film =P)
3) The US is undergoing what many perceive as a drastic demographic shift, and many Americans have responded by rallying to the defense of English. That shift? In about ten years or so, the Latin@ population in the US will surpass the white population, and obviously that means that Spanish will replace English as the unofficial language of the US. The US doesn't have an official language, but our national language is English, and so any perceived attack on the English language is often construed as an attack against the national spirit by the more conservative among us. When I was in college near Philadelphia, a cheesesteak shop called Geno's put up a sign in their window that read "No English? No Cheesesteak!", meaning that he wouldn't serve a customer who didn't order in English. A few years later, there were lobbyists in DC pushing to pass legislation that would remove the Spanish language option on automated hot-lines. I've often been yelled at, or more frequently been grumbled at passive aggressively, for speaking Spanish in public. Most recently, a woman who had to have been in her mid-30s told me to learn English when I was speaking in Spanish to my grandmother on a bus, and when I revealed that I'm actually quite proficient in English thankyouverymuch, she then scolded me for babying my grandmother and keeping her from learning English. Um, what? Woman, please. Granted, this kind of attitude depends on where you are in the US. But I live in an extremely liberal part of the country, and I still feel weary when I speak Spanish in public around non-Latin@s. Never mind that, apart from English, approximately 336 languages are spoken in the US---we don't want to hear it.
Um, so, basically, the US needs to develop a more open stance towards both foreign languages and foreign language education. Foreign language education should start at an education level earlier than high school, which is when most of us start. And universities experiencing extreme budget costs due to the economy need to stop cutting costs by eliminating their foreign language department (this happened to a public university in my state---it eliminated Italian, German, Russian, and Chinese, and kept only Spanish and French).
For those of you working on your millionth language, keep on truckin'! (And sorry for yet another overly verbose post---I really did try to keep it short!)
1) Unlike Europe, the US is linguistically isolated. We have Canada up top, which apart from Quebec is predominantly English-speaking, and the Spanish/Portuguese speaking Latin America below us; in other words, we're not surrounded by great linguistic variety. The majority of Americans I would say have never been to, and probably never will, travel outside of the US, especially given the current economic clime, and so learning an exotic language one will never use must seem like a waste of an education to many.
2) The US got some mad privilege, and we take English for granted because of it. I know TOO MANY people here who are often shocked and even annoyed when they come across a foreigner who barely speaks English. I guess given that English has become the lingua franca of the contemporary world, many Americans have this assumption that everyone in non-English-speaking countries is taught the language to near fluency, and since Americans already know English, why bother learning another? We treat English like a skeleton key, an all-access pass, and ignore that using English can actually hinder cross-cultural understanding since much of a culture is actually conveyed through its language and, thus, much of it gets lost in translation. (Lost in Translation is a GREAT movie, by the way, about culture shock and alienation set in Tokyo; yes, it's an English-language film =P)
3) The US is undergoing what many perceive as a drastic demographic shift, and many Americans have responded by rallying to the defense of English. That shift? In about ten years or so, the Latin@ population in the US will surpass the white population, and obviously that means that Spanish will replace English as the unofficial language of the US. The US doesn't have an official language, but our national language is English, and so any perceived attack on the English language is often construed as an attack against the national spirit by the more conservative among us. When I was in college near Philadelphia, a cheesesteak shop called Geno's put up a sign in their window that read "No English? No Cheesesteak!", meaning that he wouldn't serve a customer who didn't order in English. A few years later, there were lobbyists in DC pushing to pass legislation that would remove the Spanish language option on automated hot-lines. I've often been yelled at, or more frequently been grumbled at passive aggressively, for speaking Spanish in public. Most recently, a woman who had to have been in her mid-30s told me to learn English when I was speaking in Spanish to my grandmother on a bus, and when I revealed that I'm actually quite proficient in English thankyouverymuch, she then scolded me for babying my grandmother and keeping her from learning English. Um, what? Woman, please. Granted, this kind of attitude depends on where you are in the US. But I live in an extremely liberal part of the country, and I still feel weary when I speak Spanish in public around non-Latin@s. Never mind that, apart from English, approximately 336 languages are spoken in the US---we don't want to hear it.
Um, so, basically, the US needs to develop a more open stance towards both foreign languages and foreign language education. Foreign language education should start at an education level earlier than high school, which is when most of us start. And universities experiencing extreme budget costs due to the economy need to stop cutting costs by eliminating their foreign language department (this happened to a public university in my state---it eliminated Italian, German, Russian, and Chinese, and kept only Spanish and French).
For those of you working on your millionth language, keep on truckin'! (And sorry for yet another overly verbose post---I really did try to keep it short!)
krazykenbo wrote: i didnt know in florida Spanishn is equally common ... interesting :)
It is, went a few years ago to visit a friend in Kissimmee and when I went to certain areas and stores, I felt like I was in Puerto Rico. There also some parts of Massachusetts, like Springfield, where Spanish is also very common.
Sockersoppa wrote: It is, went a few years ago to visit a friend in Kissimmee and when I went to certain areas and stores, I felt like I was in Puerto Rico. There also some parts of Massachusetts, like Springfield, where Spanish is also very common.
Kinda like B&T mentioned, in the US, there are a lot of spanish-speaking immigrant communities (members of which then have children, who sometimes speak the spanish language). In Florida, it's been this way for decades, particularly after Che and Fidel did what they did (neutral language, not trying to start a debate here, hehe) in Cuba. A lot of immigrants came to Florida. (A long time ago when western Europeans came to the Americas, Florida was actually Spanish, not British.)
Florida is very close to the caribbean making it really easy to travel there. It's actually closer to much of the caribbean than it is to the rest of the USA. It's a peninsula, which means that it is surrounded by water on three sides and only attached to mainland USA on one side (the side furthest north). It also has islands off the southern tip. It takes about 9-10 hours to drive from southern Florida to northern Florida.
All of this history and geography contributes to the popularity of spanish language in Florida.
Not only are there a large amount spanish-speaking immigrants, there is a significant portion of the population that, despite being born in the US, do not speak english well or simply prefer speaking spanish. As a result, there are a lot of neighborhoods that require you to use spanish in order to communicate anything.
:)
smibliosy wrote: Oh gosh, let's face it: the United States and foreign language education do not mix. I'll try not to make this too long, but I make no definite promises on that one--
1) Unlike Europe, the US is linguistically isolated. We have Canada up top, which apart from Quebec is predominantly English-speaking, and the Spanish/Portuguese speaking Latin America below us; in other words, we're not surrounded by great linguistic variety. The majority of Americans I would say have never been to, and probably never will, travel outside of the US, especially given the current economic clime, and so learning an exotic language one will never use must seem like a waste of an education to many.
2) The US got some mad privilege, and we take English for granted because of it. I know TOO MANY people here who are often shocked and even annoyed when they come across a foreigner who barely speaks English. I guess given that English has become the lingua franca of the contemporary world, many Americans have this assumption that everyone in non-English-speaking countries is taught the language to near fluency, and since Americans already know English, why bother learning another? We treat English like a skeleton key, an all-access pass, and ignore that using English can actually hinder cross-cultural understanding since much of a culture is actually conveyed through its language and, thus, much of it gets lost in translation. (Lost in Translation is a GREAT movie, by the way, about culture shock and alienation set in Tokyo; yes, it's an English-language film =P)
3) The US is undergoing what many perceive as a drastic demographic shift, and many Americans have responded by rallying to the defense of English. That shift? In about ten years or so, the Latin@ population in the US will surpass the white population, and obviously that means that Spanish will replace English as the unofficial language of the US. The US doesn't have an official language, but our national language is English, and so any perceived attack on the English language is often construed as an attack against the national spirit by the more conservative among us. When I was in college near Philadelphia, a cheesesteak shop called Geno's put up a sign in their window that read "No English? No Cheesesteak!", meaning that he wouldn't serve a customer who didn't order in English. A few years later, there were lobbyists in DC pushing to pass legislation that would remove the Spanish language option on automated hot-lines. I've often been yelled at, or more frequently been grumbled at passive aggressively, for speaking Spanish in public. Most recently, a woman who had to have been in her mid-30s told me to learn English when I was speaking in Spanish to my grandmother on a bus, and when I revealed that I'm actually quite proficient in English thankyouverymuch, she then scolded me for babying my grandmother and keeping her from learning English. Um, what? Woman, please. Granted, this kind of attitude depends on where you are in the US. But I live in an extremely liberal part of the country, and I still feel weary when I speak Spanish in public around non-Latin@s. Never mind that, apart from English, approximately 336 languages are spoken in the US---we don't want to hear it.
Um, so, basically, the US needs to develop a more open stance towards both foreign languages and foreign language education. Foreign language education should start at an education level earlier than high school, which is when most of us start. And universities experiencing extreme budget costs due to the economy need to stop cutting costs by eliminating their foreign language department (this happened to a public university in my state---it eliminated Italian, German, Russian, and Chinese, and kept only Spanish and French).
For those of you working on your millionth language, keep on truckin'! (And sorry for yet another overly verbose post---I really did try to keep it short!)
This is very interesting (me like long, well written posts ;) ). It may hurt our sensitivity - and rightly so - but it's a fact that English speaking countries tend to be mono-lingual. The same problem, on a much smaller scale, is found in Great Britain too. If I am allowed a silly simile, from the average English speaker point of view it's like declaring: <
The irony of all this is that at the end of the day it's the English language the one which is coming out somehow beaten. Before you beat me, let me clarify. There are almost daily debates in Europe about the impoverishment of our languages through the massive adoption of English words and expressions (mind you, not to fill in some verbal void, but to overlap already existing words and expressions). Be it Italian, German, Spanish or French, hordes of linguists tear each other's hair as to what can be done to stop the unstoppable process and bla bla bla (they forget that all of them already went through the same process dozens of times in the history of language).
Nevertheless, our languages are somehow established, each on its own ground. Most of the English used now has the character of a transitory fashion, cool today, replaced tomorrow by the new trendy Spanish, French or Japanese ejaculation. The rest is simply assimilated in the form of a calque. English, on the other hand, is spoken by every possible nationality, each bringing in its own expressions, structures, accent. There already is a fat industry of English novels written by non-English natives, drawing the attention of experts everywhere.
And because a language, as was very rightly observed, carries within a baggage of history, mind-frame, tradition and culture, the risk for the English language to lose its identity is much higher than it will ever be for our geographically limited ones. To go back to the above simile, as a result of expecting others to love it, English becomes the prostitute and we the clients.
This is a simple observation on my part, it doesn't carry any judgment whatsoever.
Ops... I never answered the original question.
I've learnt English in school, and later at University in the form of English Literature. This is it. Boring plot.
:)
wrote: didnt know in florida Spanishn is equally common ... interesting
I went to Miami over christmas. And since compared to my country everything in the US is so very cheap nowadays, its a shopping paradise. Of course that was our main occupation while staying there ^_^ (well thats besides the point). At times when we were in a store or a mall, the women who worked there didnt speak one single word of English. Not one. (Seriously!) To be honest - I thought this was irritating. I have never learnt spanish but I knew more words in spanish than most of them knew in english. But maybe it was just annoying because I wasnt expecting it.
I mean, because here in Europe I dont mind it at all. Well you cant really avoid it, can you? When I drive 20 minutes, everybody speaks french. I drive 4 hours and everybody speaks italian. With plane I can be in England, Spain, or any other european country within 2 hours or so.
When you buy a product in my country the name/ingredients/Description etc is always written in 3 languages.
wrote: "No English? No Cheesesteak!", meaning that he wouldn't serve a customer who didn't order in English. A few years later, there were lobbyists in DC pushing to pass legislation that would remove the Spanish language option on automated hot-lines. I've often been yelled at, or more frequently been grumbled at passive aggressively, for speaking Spanish in public. Most recently, a woman who had to have been in her mid-30s told me to learn English when I was speaking in Spanish to my grandmother on a bus, and when I revealed that I'm actually quite proficient in English thankyouverymuch
hmmm... i think that is very stupid/ignorant. But I think you're right with your whole statement. And I experienced the same thing while living there. I mean, I the first months I even had the feeling that people thought I was dumb/slow just because I wasnt fluent in english. Which was frustrating and sucked, at first. Well its still frustrating (but Then I figured out how you can play that to your advantage in school ^_^)
But to be honest, this attitude about "everybody-else-has-to-meet-our-standart-anyway" isnt just rooted in the language thing but also in every other matter. Dont get me wrong. Not all americans are like this. And I love America. Its just the way people sometimes think in general, it's its culture that the general american is just really narrow-minded (opposite of open-minded).
I learn English from primary school & intensively from English course when i was 9 years old. The English course give me proper grammar & vocabulary, i took 2 different Eng courses, 1 specialist in British English for 10 years, another in American English for 5 years. I learn the way of talking (accent) & slang words from western movies which my eldest brother's hobby influence me since i was 8 year-old. Eventually, i stayed up all night to watch dramas & movies by satellite tv (coz school & courses during the day). Watching movies from all countries become my hobby since then till now.
I learn Chinese formally in Chinese course for 2 years in high school & continue for another 2 years in university. I start to like Chinese drama since 12 year-old, some conversational Chinese i can speak since that my great-grandfather-mother's native language. Even at home parents & siblings speaks it. I love Huan Zhu gege "Princess Pearl" China drama, it's hilarious.
I learn French while in univ for 2.5 years, i went to Europe, first country was France & i got culture shock coz the food, attitude, clothing, & space of dorm. My dad sometimes still speaks French with me.
As for Korean Drama, firstly i watched "All about Eve" & "Winter Sonata" & "Autumn's Tale" since then i started to watch K-Drama & K-movie. Coz i used to watch them, daily i can unconsciously speak Korean, like 'aigoo' 'omona' 'omma' 'jaemiso' 'kyupta' 'himdeuru' 'ottokhe' 'wae'. Now i'm crazy about K-Pop idols like Super Junior & 2PM kekeke (^_^).
Thailand dramas (lakorn) & Thai-movies also really interesting since i watch Natcha when i was 9 & re-watched it when i was 15. Lately i watch lakorn from www.viki.com. I have watch 28 lakorns since then. They're so funny. Lakorn can be contender to K-dramas.
There are some words similarity but different meaning in Korean & Thai. If you have watched lots lakorn & K-dramas, you'll know.
There are some words similarity but differ meaning in Indonesian & Thai. e.g: luang (Indonesia: spare [time]) (Thai: be careful)
I learn Chinese formally in Chinese course for 2 years in high school & continue for another 2 years in university. I start to like Chinese drama since 12 year-old, some conversational Chinese i can speak since that my great-grandfather-mother's native language. Even at home parents & siblings speaks it. I love Huan Zhu gege "Princess Pearl" China drama, it's hilarious.
I learn French while in univ for 2.5 years, i went to Europe, first country was France & i got culture shock coz the food, attitude, clothing, & space of dorm. My dad sometimes still speaks French with me.
As for Korean Drama, firstly i watched "All about Eve" & "Winter Sonata" & "Autumn's Tale" since then i started to watch K-Drama & K-movie. Coz i used to watch them, daily i can unconsciously speak Korean, like 'aigoo' 'omona' 'omma' 'jaemiso' 'kyupta' 'himdeuru' 'ottokhe' 'wae'. Now i'm crazy about K-Pop idols like Super Junior & 2PM kekeke (^_^).
Thailand dramas (lakorn) & Thai-movies also really interesting since i watch Natcha when i was 9 & re-watched it when i was 15. Lately i watch lakorn from www.viki.com. I have watch 28 lakorns since then. They're so funny. Lakorn can be contender to K-dramas.
There are some words similarity but different meaning in Korean & Thai. If you have watched lots lakorn & K-dramas, you'll know.
There are some words similarity but differ meaning in Indonesian & Thai. e.g: luang (Indonesia: spare [time]) (Thai: be careful)
I am from India and Bengali is my mother tongue :D But I am not so fluent in Bengali as I am in Hindi and English. Hindi is our national language, but English is the first language here at 99.9% of the English medium schools and Hindi/[some other language] is second. English is taught since kindergarten and we have it as our first language till...well, as long as we study, LOL. So, I have been studying English since I was a kid. Actually in India, it is like, while we write, we usually use English but while speaking we use Hindi unless it is extremely important to speak in English such as at school (speaking in a language other than English means punishment which I think is a lame rule). A few people people here show off their English skills to make those who are not so good at English or totally English illiterate appear like a fool. Umm, I got a bit diverted from the actual topic. So what I was saying is, English next to Hindi is an important language here and we use it in our daily life so I have never felt like I am LEARNING English. It is like it is my mother tongue. Sometimes I forget a particular word in Hindi while speaking and I replace it with the English word. We all do that here. It is never like we use pure Hindi. We always have English words in whatever we speak which is known as 'Hinglish' (mixture of Hindi and English xD). I hope I have been able to explain well the scenario :P
English is my first language, as I live in the U.S. but I've taken two years of French in school and hope to learn more. I've learned a bit of Korean (verbal/spoken) from watching all those Korean dramas xD but only the basics and family members...I WANT to learn fluent Italian, Japanese, fluent French, and I suppose Korean now, but I'm not that smart to learn all of those >.> My dad thinks I should learn Spanish instead since that's pretty much the state's second language, but it's so common that I don't want to...cuz I'm weird that way.
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