No, it won't be a happy ending as Xiang Liu would have to live with guilt for the rest of his life that he was not with them to the bitter end. If Hong Jiang had chosen to surrender, there might have been a chance for Xiang Liu to live on without the burden of guilt and regret. However, if Xiao Yao had understood what that meant (which I believe she did), but still somehow manipulated the situation so that he survived the Shen Nong army, then it would be similar to A Nian's stance in the drama. Xiao Yao would derive some modicum of happiness because the man she loved is alive, never mind how Xiang Liu would feel having to live with survivor's guilt. But this is all a moot point. I remember in one of his interviews, TJC once said that wild horses would not be able to stop Xiang Liu from doing what he had determined he would do (he used the Chinese saying 十头牛都拉不回 ten oxen would not be able to drag him back) and I believe he is right. I just wish he/they had chosen to grasp happiness while they could, even if it could not last. In that sense, I feel that Chi Chen and A Heng were far happier and blessed, despite the tragic end that awaited them.liddi:
I agree with everything you said here.
However, perhaps that is the point. By taking away the option to come back through another timeline or multiple lifetimes, it makes their choices that much more final, because there is no second chance, no going back to undo any wrong decisions or make up for any regrets, except in the way the old Xuan Yuan king and Gao Xin Shao Hao did.
The Eternal Love 2 scenario led me to think about a Story of Kunning Palace scenario. What if XY had a do-over and was able to go back almost to the beginning of the story? What different choices would she make? If she successfully changed certain things (e.g., CX killing TSJ, her assassination, or XL's final battle), how would that impact her relationship with XL?
I felt like a lot of the things that XY would change were actually really important. Like if CX never killed TSJ, might XY still feel closest to CX and not be able to leave him and Xuan Yuan to be with XL? What if she avoided her assassination? That would mean no 37 years in XL's clam shell, and she wouldn't gain the ability to breathe under water or undergo the other changes that enabled her to consider the ocean a place she could always go to.
Can't view the Youtube links as it is geo-blocked for me
Ah, always annoying when that happens.
I agree that if Hong Jiang had decided to surrender, the Xiang Liu of the novel would have supported him too, even if he had to live through survivors guilt, like the old Lirong donkey meat seller for the rest of his life.
While XL would likely still be haunted by the memories of his comrades who died in that scenario and might feel some survivor's guilt, I feel like that scenario (where Gong Gong and a significant portion of the remnant army surrendered and survived) would be much less painful for him than an alternative where the remnant army didn't surrender and was completely annihilated but he somehow survived. To be the sole survivor would be very painful... I imagine that situation would give rise to peak survivor's guilt and he'd really feel like he failed / abandoned them.
You are a lot kinder and gracious than I am, liddi.HeadInTheClouds:
Hah. That's because you have not heard the expletives I chose not to verbalise on the thread, even if I have given hints to it now and then. But I still stand by my theory that censorship is one of the main factors. Am I just pulling a Xiao Yao (hey! That's a new one!) and lying to myself? Who knows. It is certainly far less painful than believing that Tong Hua, after giving us such an unforgettable novel and characters that we can't move on from, would willingly butcher it just for financial gains.
If they wanted to retain this "hidden love", then certain acting/directing choices could have been employed - showed more internal conflict etc.
I wish I had the S1 script when Fangfeng Bei snuck into her chambers, because that is the one scene I cannot revisit without gritting my teeth. That, to me, would tell me clearly what the intent was, and whether what we got was either lost in translation, or deliberately changed. TJC said that he was actually often told to act more remote, and show less emotion, but fought to portray Xiang Liu's emotions, rather than just an ice-block face after discussions with the director. Did the same happen with the rest of the cast? But you know, TJC mentioned discussing the scene with YZ when Fangfeng Bei almost touched Xiao Yao's face after she said she wished she was the one who saved him from the death match arena years ago. At the time, they both agreed that there was no way Xiao Yao could not have not known Xiang Liu loved her, by the very fact that he was that close to caressing her face at that point in time. So yeah... I don't know what to believe anymore.
If I do finish translating the rest of the leaked script (with the reactions, is anyone even interested now or am I just wasting my time??), I will go back and compare the script to the last 9 episodes of S1 and see if there are any differences between them in terms of delivery.
Drama's Xiao Yao also comes across like an utter moron - what kind of idiot does not even suspects that they have feelings for someone, no matter how much they suppressed it?
I am more of the impression that drama Xiao Yao does not know the extent of Xiang Liu's feelings, but is aware of her own, except she chooses not to acknowledge it. And since she very conveniently never finds out the true nature of the bug, she never finds out what she means to Xiang Liu.
If there is no established love between them, then the rest of her statement is irrelevant - there would be no need for them to be clear-headed, no need for the sense of regret for what could have been.
This is what she said:
Has Xiao Liu ever loved Xiang Liu? I feel this question... I feel an adult's world and perspective on love is not just solely "love, love". I feel that is a little shallow.
:
Actually I feel that Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu is not just a simple who loved whom. They were both... I felt that in the beginning, everyone had the chance but the reality is that they did not choose Xiao Yao. This was not up to Xiao Yao to choose.
:
His life was fated to not be able to be with Xiao Yao. In the previous generation, due to the problem of standpoint (opposing sides) and fate, my mother A Heng and my father Chi Chen ended up with a tragic ending. As such, in this generation, it is possible that Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao were fated not to be able to be together. They are... as everyone watching the drama feels that they should be a certain way... but they are always one person moves forward, and the other takes a step back; one person takes a step forward, the other person moves backward. In some ways, everyone was very clear-headed because from the start, they knew that the both of them would never work out. I think we should interpret it in this way, rather than just focusing whether they do love or do not love each other. I think that is not what this drama, or Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao are trying to convey.
The "one person moves forward, the other takes a step back" is a subtle hint that Xiao Yao too took steps towards Xiang Liu, but he did not reciprocate when she did so, which would be an affirmative answer to the question. And the drama hid the loveline behind the convenient excuse of her not knowing.
P.S. I don't blame Yang Zi, she was hired to do a job and she did it. And with the crazies that are out there, it's smart to stay out of the fray. Maybe a bit cheese-off with the director and writers, haven't gotten to the state of pins and voodoo dolls, yet :-). Maybe that will come after watching the second season. Although, I'm having second thoughts about watching it. Should just save myself the aggravation.
Yes - at the end of the day, they were hired to deliver a script to the best of their ability, whether they personally agree with it or not. (I can't imagine actors not cringing with some of the lines they have to deliver, or rolling their eyes at the end of a scene, but they still did their job anyway). Everything starts from the script, so I would really look askance at the team of scriptwriters, including Tong Hua. But as I said, I am trying my hardest to understand the reason it is apparently so drastically changed, and still keep fingers and toes crossed that someone came to their senses when it came to film it. You might not watch S2? I will definitely be watching, though unlike S1, I will approach each episode with fear and trepidation, praying that my worst fears won't come true.
The Eternal Love 2 scenario led me to think about a Story of Kunning Palace scenario. What if XY had a do-over and was able to go back almost to the beginning of the story? What different choices would she make? If she successfully changed certain things (e.g., CX killing TSJ, her assassination, or XL's final battle), how would that impact her relationship with XL?AH :
That was the premise of the very first fanfic I read, where the xingxing mirror sent Xiao Yao back to the moment of her wedding to Feng Long, and because of what she now knew, she made very different choices, supporting his decisions up to the moment when he faced off the Xuan Yuan army, only asking that he promised one life as her bride price. It was a much needed balm at the time, and I still revisit it when I am feeling melancholic over the novel itself.
I felt like a lot of the things that XY would change were actually really important. Like if CX never killed TSJ, might XY still feel closest to CX and not be able to leave him and Xuan Yuan to be with XL? What if she avoided her assassination? That would mean no 37 years in XL's clam shell, and she wouldn't gain the ability to breathe under water or undergo the other changes that enabled her to consider the ocean a place she could always go to.
I refuse to give up 37 years under the ocean, if Xiao Yao had to go back and relive everything from the beginning, just because. But yes, I believe her relationship with Cang Xuan would not be fractured, and she could have had an amicable end to her relationship with Jing.
To be the sole survivor would be very painful... I imagine that situation would give rise to peak survivor's guilt and he'd really feel like he failed / abandoned them.
True that. However, that would have happened if the Shen Nong army resolutely refused to surrender (which they did) and he survived. So the best end for him in that situation would still be to die with them. If he survived somehow despite being prepared to die, would he have finally accepted undoing everything he arranged for Xiao Yao with Jing, and the possibility of a life with her? Or would he have left her in peace and gone away instead. But of course, we will never know...
I apologize beforehand because this post will read like I'm poobah-ing everything that you say. I'm such a pessimist scrooge when it comes to this :-)
But I still stand by my theory that censorship is one of the main factors
Censorship is undoubtedly a major factor. I just wish Tong Hua had stayed away from the entire thing. Like you said, thinking that she had a hand in butchering it, seems (almost) like a negation of the novel and that maybe we're the fools for analysing and reading too much into it.
I wish I had the S1 script when Fangfeng Bei snuck into her chambers, because that is the one scene I cannot revisit without gritting my teeth.
You and me both. The way that Yang Zi's Xiao Yao acted in that scene makes me want to throw things.
At the time, they both agreed that there was no way Xiao Yao could not have not known Xiang Liu loved her,
I am more of the impression that drama Xiao Yao does not know the extent of Xiang Liu's feelings, but is aware of her own, except she chooses not to acknowledge it.
I think for me, you can infer Xiang Liu's love for Xiao Yao in the drama, but Xiao Yao's feelings for him are not coded that way. The scene that you mentioned about, Xiao Yao's wish to be the one to save him could just as easily be read as compassionate feelings towards her "soulmate of the friendship kind" friend. In the novel, it was the combination of factors that pushed it towards love.
If drama's Xiao Yao knows, but chose not to acknowledge her feelings for Xiang Liu then they didn't do a very good job of conveying this idea, IMO. I genuinely don't sense conflict or hesitation in the way that Yang Zi is playing Xiao Yao. Having her not finding out about the nature of the Lovers Bugs is the final nail in that coffin. Not only can she conveniently ignore Xiang Liu's feelings for her, but she can also remain ignorant of her feelings for him.
The "one person moves forward, the other takes a step back" is a subtle hint that Xiao Yao too took steps towards Xiang Liu, but he did not reciprocate when she did so, which would be an affirmative answer to the question
Did she ever take a step towards him in the drama? I'm not seeing it. It's so subtle that it might as well be non-existent. See my comments above.
This sounds like Yang Zi's basing her answer on what's in the novel rather than the drama (and I've said the same thing myself here). Yang Zi may understand the novel the way that we do, but whether this was translated to the drama is a different story.
You might not watch S2? I will definitely be watching, though unlike S1, I will approach each episode with fear and trepidation, praying that my worst fears won't come true.
At this rate, I'm leaning towards no. I will still be on this board and participating with you guys - and getting pissed off by association. But, I don't really need to see this crap-fest played out. Unless what we get reads differently on screen (fingers crossed that your optimism beats my pessimism :-))
with the reactions, is anyone even interested now or am I just wasting my time??)
We all appreciate the time and effort you put into translating things for us. Besides, you give my heart a good workout with every new detail from this abomination ;-) (my poor blood pressure, lol). So, I'll be reading while cursing and furiously typing my rant post in reply :-).
I apologize beforehand because this post will read like I'm poobah-ing everything that you say. I'm such a pessimist scrooge when it comes to this :-)
LOL. Rant away. If we can't rant in the safety of our own thread, where can we rant?
Censorship is undoubtedly a major factor. I just wish Tong Hua had stayed away from the entire thing.
I noticed that Lost You Forever is the only adaptation of Tong Hua's historical works where she is actually a part of the scriptwriting team (she is also co-producer). As such, the expectation is that the adaptation should have been the most faithful to the novel itself, because she would have supervised the script. It is understandable that scenes may get omitted, changed or edited, but the spirit of the source material should have been retained, just as it was in Scarlet Heart. Yet if the leaked script remains unchanged, I have no words how it could have met with her stamp of approval, unless it was out of her hands.
I recalled hearing rumours that YZ fought to have scenes with A Heng included in the drama. Not sure how true that was, since nothing in the leaked script indicates that this was ever considered, and all we have is the illusion when she imagined her parents in Chi Chen's old home.
I read Weibo posters saying that some things in the novel were actually clarified through the drama. I wish I remembered what they cited as examples though, if only for a sliver of hope that S2 will do the same.
If drama's Xiao Yao knows, but chose not to acknowledge her feelings for Xiang Liu then they didn't do a very good job of conveying this idea, IMO. I genuinely don't sense conflict or hesitation in the way that Yang Zi is playing Xiao Yao. Having her not finding out about the nature of the Lovers Bugs is the final nail in that coffin.
Yup. In most scenes, drama Xiao Yao felt like she cared less compared to Xiang Liu.
Did she ever take a step towards him in the drama? I'm not seeing it. It's so subtle that it might as well be non-existent.
My take is that she was referring to the crystal globe, which we have yet to see, though I dislike the dialogue that went with it... as if she did not know what she was waiting for those 7 days outside Dragon Bone prison. And there is no internal monologue from A Nian that she reminded her of the legendary fisherman's daughter who waited for her lover to return from the sea.
Unless what we get reads differently on screen (fingers crossed that your optimism beats my pessimism :-))
In that case, let's pray I win this, for all our sakes!
We all appreciate the time and effort you put into translating things for us. Besides, you give my heart a good workout with every new detail from this abomination ;-) (my poor blood pressure, lol). So, I'll be reading while cursing and furiously typing my rant post in reply :-).
LOL! I guess a workout is a workout, regardless of how you get there. Condolences to our hair, keyboard and very likely monitor / TV screen!
Liddi, we very much appreciate the work your been putting into translating that cursed script. You’ve been doing this for months now and we can never be thankful enough.nathsketch:
Just wish we could be reading better things. Alas, this is what we have. At least this collective loathing keeps bringing us together ❤️
Thank you for the kind words. I wish I were a bringer of better news. Thankfully we do not still live in times where killing the messenger is the norm... or are we? GULP.
3 more episodes left of outrage and uproar (hopefully not!) to look forward to. Will try and churn them out sometime soon.
I read it last night, it made the hole in my heart feel a little better.you know, the story even carried over into dreams.windiaaa041293:
I know right? It was my very first happy pill after all the pain. Since you have access to Weibo, do read YOLO 苏璎's 相思结 too. While we only see her interacting with Xiang Liu in the last chapter, we do see Xiao Yao's regrets and growth, which is very cathartic, after everything she put us through. And Hong Jiang gets to redeem himself in our eyes too through that last act of his.
I know right? It was my very first happy pill after all the pain. Since you have access to Weibo, do read YOLO 苏璎's 相思结 too. While we only see her interacting with Xiang Liu in the last chapter, we do see Xiao Yao's regrets and growth, which is very cathartic, after everything she put us through. And Hong Jiang gets to redeem himself in our eyes too through that last act of his.
yes...I'm always waiting for updates from YOLO, I haven't read all of them, only some of them, one of which is when xy returned to qingsui city and entered the house that xl had prepared, and found a suitcase filled with clothes.
yes...I'm always waiting for updates from YOLO, I haven't read all of them, only some of them, one of which is when xy returned to qingsui city and entered the house that xl had prepared, and found a suitcase filled with clothes.
Oh, that's Chapter 1 of 相思结. Continue reading the remaining 13 chapters! Jing was unable to enter the house because Xiang Liu set up a barrier which only allowed Xiao Yao to enter.
Thank you for the kind words. I wish I were a bringer of better news. Thankfully we do not still live in times where killing the messenger is the norm... or are we? GULP.
3 more episodes left of outrage and uproar (hopefully not!) to look forward to. Will try and churn them out sometime soon.
Don't feel pressured to do it. Do what makes you happy !
Everyone is interested any anything you find so you pick!
I noticed that Lost You Forever is the only adaptation of Tong Hua's historical works where she is actually a part of the scriptwriting team (she is also co-producer).
Oh god, being a co-producer is even worse than if she'd just simply sold the rights and be part of the writing team as she would (technically) have been involved in every aspect from development through to post-production.
Yet if the leaked script remains unchanged, I have no words how it could have met with her stamp of approval, unless it was out of her hands.
Or, it's all about the money. Being a co-producer would mean that she has a vested interest in the drama making it pass censorship and making as much money as possible as she would have gotten a cut of the royalties. I remembered that interview where she talked about how it's important to retain the spirit of the characters and the source material. This leaked script is a mockery of that interview.
I read Weibo posters saying that some things in the novel were actually clarified through the drama. I wish I remembered what they cited as examples though, if only for a sliver of hope that S2 will do the same.
Are you sure those posters are not hardcore Jingers? I'd bet they are happy with the changes in the drama since their ship is getting pushed hard and Jing is made less pathetic.
My take is that she was referring to the crystal globe, which we have yet to see, though I dislike the dialogue that went with it... as if she did not know what she was waiting for those 7 days outside Dragon Bone prison. And there is no internal monologue from A Nian that she reminded her of the legendary fisherman's daughter who waited for her lover to return from the sea.
They throw a token at the YaoLiu ship, but not without minimizing it to the point of being almost non-existence.
My blood pressure is rising again. Thanks for the workout, liddi ;-)
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