Episode 8, hm... Thoughts: *I'm not at all surprised that Sota stood Erena up to be with Saeko; it would have been stranger if he didn't. He has been thinking about Saeko for so long that he can't know for sure if he "truly loves her" or not, because he has never had a real chance to actually be with her. During the previous episodes, I've felt that he has fallen in love with Erena, but he can't think of it that way because his definition of love has probably a lot to do with pain and heartache and so on... There are three more episodes... I don't think that he'll be with Saeko in the end, because there's really nothing between them except his daydreams about her and her love of chocolate, and he should see that sooner or later.
THATCRAZYOTAKU wrote: The subber said that he/she was having a mid-life crisis so episode 9 will be late. The soonest she/he can have it up is by Monday or Tuesday.
Update: Episode 9 is up now, and oh, what a good episode, though *I'd really like to see Saeko burn in the end. I feel so bad for Erena--especially now that Souta's completely ignoring her.*
Episode 9: I think Sota is going to understand in the end that Saeko isn't right for him. He realizes already that reality is different from his dream, that he doesn't know what Saeko is thinking and feeling at all. He knows that he had so much more fun as was happier with Erena. But at the same time he doesn't understand any of this at all, he just keeps on insisting that "this is love", how frustrating...
I think Saeko really does like him, but she's not at all in love with him. She just wants to live an easy and care-free life, and became unhappy when she got married. If Saeko truly had wanted Sota to understand her, she would have told him about what's going on with her husband. I agree with Sota that it's not easy to understand what she's thinking.
Here's what I don't understand, though: I see why Sota got upset thinking that Saeko had let her husband eat the chocolate, but why didn't he get even more upset at the question if he had ever hit a woman? During that silence that followed, I was actually convinced that he was going to say something like "don't show your face here again!", but now I'm not at all sure if he understood. *
Edit: On second thought, I can see that it is entirely possible that Saeko is going to decide that she really does love him and it will be like Erena never existed. I don't know. All I know is that I don't like this as much as I did a few episodes ago... *
I think Saeko really does like him, but she's not at all in love with him. She just wants to live an easy and care-free life, and became unhappy when she got married. If Saeko truly had wanted Sota to understand her, she would have told him about what's going on with her husband. I agree with Sota that it's not easy to understand what she's thinking.
Here's what I don't understand, though: I see why Sota got upset thinking that Saeko had let her husband eat the chocolate, but why didn't he get even more upset at the question if he had ever hit a woman? During that silence that followed, I was actually convinced that he was going to say something like "don't show your face here again!", but now I'm not at all sure if he understood. *
Edit: On second thought, I can see that it is entirely possible that Saeko is going to decide that she really does love him and it will be like Erena never existed. I don't know. All I know is that I don't like this as much as I did a few episodes ago... *
I hope the last episode turns out to be really good, because I think the last few episodes have been disappointing compared to earlier. I don't know what happened here? :(
*Souta is obviously afraid of admitting that he doesn't really love Saeko after all (because loving her has been the purpose of his life so far), imo, but does that mean that in the end they'll go their separate ways? (If so, what's going to happen to Saeko? She should obviously not go back to her husband.) Something makes me suspect that the intended reaction is for the audience to hope that he'll finally be able to connect with her heart and they'll stay together? But I don't feel like the problem is that they can't communicate properly, but that there's no real "spark" there to begin with. It's fine to be in love with Saeko when she's unavailable, a dream, but now in real life he can't understand her. I can't understand her either and that's why I can't feel anything for her and that's why I don't think it's good for Souta to be with her. I feel like the only thing she's passionate about is chocolate - she should probably go to Paris and become a chocolatier, that way she can get away from both Souta and her husband! Also, Souta was thinking about Erena for a moment there: he was daydreaming about telling her that everything was over with Saeko... but then he stopped. It's like he feels that he must love Saeko. And it makes me impatient.*
*Souta is obviously afraid of admitting that he doesn't really love Saeko after all (because loving her has been the purpose of his life so far), imo, but does that mean that in the end they'll go their separate ways? (If so, what's going to happen to Saeko? She should obviously not go back to her husband.) Something makes me suspect that the intended reaction is for the audience to hope that he'll finally be able to connect with her heart and they'll stay together? But I don't feel like the problem is that they can't communicate properly, but that there's no real "spark" there to begin with. It's fine to be in love with Saeko when she's unavailable, a dream, but now in real life he can't understand her. I can't understand her either and that's why I can't feel anything for her and that's why I don't think it's good for Souta to be with her. I feel like the only thing she's passionate about is chocolate - she should probably go to Paris and become a chocolatier, that way she can get away from both Souta and her husband! Also, Souta was thinking about Erena for a moment there: he was daydreaming about telling her that everything was over with Saeko... but then he stopped. It's like he feels that he must love Saeko. And it makes me impatient.*
Alrighty the ending! Thoughts:
I personally thought from the beginning that he and Saeko would NOT end up together. Saeko even said it herself that what Souta was in love with from the start was just an illusion and not the real her. Plus, he obsessed over an illusion for all those years, and he never really know who she was. He obviously didn't give a damn about Erena so that wasn't happening, and Kaoruko didn't stand a chance either obviously. The ending was perfectly satisfying in that sense, but I know lots of people are going to drop their rating because he didn't end up with anyone. I know drama fans infamously hate this. But in my opinion it was actually a happy ending because all the characters moved on with their lives just fine, and Souta end ups not giving up being a chocolatier. It's just such a typical trope that at the end the main lead ends up leaving the country. It's been done so many times before.
The problems I had were this:
1. How in the heck did Saeko know who the father of the baby was? Was she not sleeping with Souta last? How long did she stay at his place anyway? Heck there is a strong possibility it could be his! Unless she was tracking her cycle down to the minute she would have had to have been pregnant already by the time she started staying with Souta or else it doesn't even make sense that it's her husband's kid...whatever.
2. I'm not happy that they just glazed over the subjects of domestic violence and infidelity. I mean, Saeko's husband was quite literally beating her ass. She left with a good reason. She's just going to go back to that? Why was the husband not punished in anyway for that? What kind of message is this sending? If you hit your wife, she will come back to you smiling and happy? Secondly, Saeko did cheat....in front of everyone at the shop. Both she and Souta knowingly engaged in infidelity Her husband obviously knew. Again, the gravity of this was not addressed. These are serious issues and I feel that they were not treated as they should have been. It was a cheap cop out for a little perfect ending. Japanese dramas have an unfortunate tendency of just glazing over serious issues that are presented without any real commentary on the matter. This affected my rating of the drama.
3. This is a pet peeve but I really hate how pregnancy is portrayed in dramas. It just didn't make any sense at all. Before Saeko moved in with Souta she must've been pregnant for it to not be his. That being so, she most likely would have known...otherwise, she's got a paternity issue on her hands. And why the heck does she look the same, even in the little foreshadowing scene? Isn't she pregnant? lol And her husband forgave her for cheating that easily? I mean she went to another man's house for a good few weeks/days (the passage of time was not clear here) and suddenly comes back pregnant. Who wouldn't be suspicious?
4. Otherwise, I would say that everything was concluded fairly well, I guess. Erena confessed and got over it. Kaoruko addressed her feelings. I feel like the characters of Rikudou and Sekiya could've been developed further, especially Rikudou. They were both basically throwaway characters.
I gave it an 8 because of the aforementioned reasons. It started out great but the quality steadily dropped. Reasonable ending. And that's my take on it!
I personally thought from the beginning that he and Saeko would NOT end up together. Saeko even said it herself that what Souta was in love with from the start was just an illusion and not the real her. Plus, he obsessed over an illusion for all those years, and he never really know who she was. He obviously didn't give a damn about Erena so that wasn't happening, and Kaoruko didn't stand a chance either obviously. The ending was perfectly satisfying in that sense, but I know lots of people are going to drop their rating because he didn't end up with anyone. I know drama fans infamously hate this. But in my opinion it was actually a happy ending because all the characters moved on with their lives just fine, and Souta end ups not giving up being a chocolatier. It's just such a typical trope that at the end the main lead ends up leaving the country. It's been done so many times before.
The problems I had were this:
1. How in the heck did Saeko know who the father of the baby was? Was she not sleeping with Souta last? How long did she stay at his place anyway? Heck there is a strong possibility it could be his! Unless she was tracking her cycle down to the minute she would have had to have been pregnant already by the time she started staying with Souta or else it doesn't even make sense that it's her husband's kid...whatever.
2. I'm not happy that they just glazed over the subjects of domestic violence and infidelity. I mean, Saeko's husband was quite literally beating her ass. She left with a good reason. She's just going to go back to that? Why was the husband not punished in anyway for that? What kind of message is this sending? If you hit your wife, she will come back to you smiling and happy? Secondly, Saeko did cheat....in front of everyone at the shop. Both she and Souta knowingly engaged in infidelity Her husband obviously knew. Again, the gravity of this was not addressed. These are serious issues and I feel that they were not treated as they should have been. It was a cheap cop out for a little perfect ending. Japanese dramas have an unfortunate tendency of just glazing over serious issues that are presented without any real commentary on the matter. This affected my rating of the drama.
3. This is a pet peeve but I really hate how pregnancy is portrayed in dramas. It just didn't make any sense at all. Before Saeko moved in with Souta she must've been pregnant for it to not be his. That being so, she most likely would have known...otherwise, she's got a paternity issue on her hands. And why the heck does she look the same, even in the little foreshadowing scene? Isn't she pregnant? lol And her husband forgave her for cheating that easily? I mean she went to another man's house for a good few weeks/days (the passage of time was not clear here) and suddenly comes back pregnant. Who wouldn't be suspicious?
4. Otherwise, I would say that everything was concluded fairly well, I guess. Erena confessed and got over it. Kaoruko addressed her feelings. I feel like the characters of Rikudou and Sekiya could've been developed further, especially Rikudou. They were both basically throwaway characters.
I gave it an 8 because of the aforementioned reasons. It started out great but the quality steadily dropped. Reasonable ending. And that's my take on it!
I did like the ending.
My thoughts though : well, i pretty agree agree with most of Panda-san comments. Nevertheless:
- I had hopes until end of ep 8 that Souta will finally choose Erena. I hated her in the first episode but grew up liking her more and more after the second one. Her being his sex-friend was finally not a problem, and, though I didn't like the idea at first, i was caught by the nice atmosphere of their relationship (i like how j-dramas are sometimes able to make me reconsider all my prejudices). Nevertheless the way this character was left aside in ep 9 made me loose confidence and i was not surprised she dumped him. i wouldn't say that was because of Souta's attitude. well, of course it was because of his indifference from the moment he had Saeko-san. But I don't interpret Erena's decision as wanting to put an end of an insane relationship. I think she just wanting to be as frank as they used to be when they were together at the beginning of the drama. that's where i'm the most disappointed by Souta's character : him not being able to go see Erena and telling her what was happening with Saeko. in the meantime, I think that's what makes Souta's character more realistic : the undefinable state he were when he got Saeko, unable to connect to others. Back to Erena : i was under the impression that even if she hadn't dumped him, he wouldn't have said he loved her. because she was too absent of the last episodes to make such an ending plausible.
- though I liked Olivier a lot, his love story became very boring at the end. this Kyoto story was quite useless i think (except to make us believe they still cared a little for those characters, and to make us being jealous of the little sister who was able to meet such a wonderful man (i wonder where in real life are those french men he is supposed to incarnate).
- Kaoruko's story could have been interesting but it was never fully explored. partially because of :
- Sekiya's character was not fully developped. he was a total jerk in this story, yet i can't hate him. i was hoping for development of the relationship with Kaoruko, cause i finally think they can be a good match. las!
same remark concerning Rikudo. I totally enjoyed the scene at the beginning of the final episode, but las again: it was left unachieved by the end.
- i don't care about Saeko still being with her husband though I totally agree about the strange image of domestic violence this choice can give. i don't think he will be able to change, and his smiling face would probably disappear sooner or later. the most depressing thing is the way Saeko has decided to give up on herself and live an unsatisfying life with her husband. maybe she is taking her responsability, but to me it's just to give up on oneself. I didn't like her but didn't dislike her (she was just boring imo), nevertheless this episode gave more relief to her character. Maybe if that would have been done before the story could have been more interesting and the spectator's choice between the leading female characters more Cronelian.
- i don't really think that the last episodes where less interesting. they maybe were less funny and excentric than the first ones, but maybe because the color of each episode was given by the feelings Souta was experiencing. and at the end, as well as he lost his capacity of creating new chocolates, he bacame more anxious, less joyfull, and so does the tone of the serie.
- i'm once again amused by the way arashi's ending songs can seize in a so good way the atmosphere of a drama.
I gave it a 7, not because it was so-so. I enjoyed it and laughed a lot, i liked most of the characters, and was expecting for each episode. But the story was not extraordinary, the acting not outstanding, so there was no reason to give a too high score. I would recommend it to others though.
My thoughts though : well, i pretty agree agree with most of Panda-san comments. Nevertheless:
- I had hopes until end of ep 8 that Souta will finally choose Erena. I hated her in the first episode but grew up liking her more and more after the second one. Her being his sex-friend was finally not a problem, and, though I didn't like the idea at first, i was caught by the nice atmosphere of their relationship (i like how j-dramas are sometimes able to make me reconsider all my prejudices). Nevertheless the way this character was left aside in ep 9 made me loose confidence and i was not surprised she dumped him. i wouldn't say that was because of Souta's attitude. well, of course it was because of his indifference from the moment he had Saeko-san. But I don't interpret Erena's decision as wanting to put an end of an insane relationship. I think she just wanting to be as frank as they used to be when they were together at the beginning of the drama. that's where i'm the most disappointed by Souta's character : him not being able to go see Erena and telling her what was happening with Saeko. in the meantime, I think that's what makes Souta's character more realistic : the undefinable state he were when he got Saeko, unable to connect to others. Back to Erena : i was under the impression that even if she hadn't dumped him, he wouldn't have said he loved her. because she was too absent of the last episodes to make such an ending plausible.
- though I liked Olivier a lot, his love story became very boring at the end. this Kyoto story was quite useless i think (except to make us believe they still cared a little for those characters, and to make us being jealous of the little sister who was able to meet such a wonderful man (i wonder where in real life are those french men he is supposed to incarnate).
- Kaoruko's story could have been interesting but it was never fully explored. partially because of :
- Sekiya's character was not fully developped. he was a total jerk in this story, yet i can't hate him. i was hoping for development of the relationship with Kaoruko, cause i finally think they can be a good match. las!
same remark concerning Rikudo. I totally enjoyed the scene at the beginning of the final episode, but las again: it was left unachieved by the end.
- i don't care about Saeko still being with her husband though I totally agree about the strange image of domestic violence this choice can give. i don't think he will be able to change, and his smiling face would probably disappear sooner or later. the most depressing thing is the way Saeko has decided to give up on herself and live an unsatisfying life with her husband. maybe she is taking her responsability, but to me it's just to give up on oneself. I didn't like her but didn't dislike her (she was just boring imo), nevertheless this episode gave more relief to her character. Maybe if that would have been done before the story could have been more interesting and the spectator's choice between the leading female characters more Cronelian.
- i don't really think that the last episodes where less interesting. they maybe were less funny and excentric than the first ones, but maybe because the color of each episode was given by the feelings Souta was experiencing. and at the end, as well as he lost his capacity of creating new chocolates, he bacame more anxious, less joyfull, and so does the tone of the serie.
- i'm once again amused by the way arashi's ending songs can seize in a so good way the atmosphere of a drama.
I gave it a 7, not because it was so-so. I enjoyed it and laughed a lot, i liked most of the characters, and was expecting for each episode. But the story was not extraordinary, the acting not outstanding, so there was no reason to give a too high score. I would recommend it to others though.
Ending thoughts
The ending wasn't all that exciting, but I thought it was a nice resolution. Jdramas are really serious about their titles. I mean, he really did end up as the heartbroken chocolatier. Erena and Souta not ending up together made a lot of sense. It would have been really forced if that would have happened. I agree with Panda-san that Saeko's husband taking her back after adultery and Saeko going back to him after DV was a little unsettling, but that's actually not something we haven't seen in Jdramas before. If it's any consolation, I think it showed, even if only briefly, remorse from Saeko's husband and a maturing in Saeko that changed them into better people more apt to be the happy couple they showed in the ending. On the pregnancy issue, that's pretty easy. I mean they can tell when you conceived right? Either way, that's kind of a minor issue.
I never thought the show was less exciting when it slowed down. I enjoyed the slow, more serious parts. Like I said from the beginning, they were all screwed up but they will all learn a lesson in the end, and they did. I think all of the characters came out of this more mature, more wise about love, and with more knowledge of themselves. I thought it was great! Also, I know I've already raved enough about the OST, the high-production value, the cinematography, the directing, etc. so add all those thoughts. Plus, the fact that there have been very few dramas that have managed to get me drama-high ep after ep, week after week, like this one. That's why I gave it a 10.
The ending wasn't all that exciting, but I thought it was a nice resolution. Jdramas are really serious about their titles. I mean, he really did end up as the heartbroken chocolatier. Erena and Souta not ending up together made a lot of sense. It would have been really forced if that would have happened. I agree with Panda-san that Saeko's husband taking her back after adultery and Saeko going back to him after DV was a little unsettling, but that's actually not something we haven't seen in Jdramas before. If it's any consolation, I think it showed, even if only briefly, remorse from Saeko's husband and a maturing in Saeko that changed them into better people more apt to be the happy couple they showed in the ending. On the pregnancy issue, that's pretty easy. I mean they can tell when you conceived right? Either way, that's kind of a minor issue.
I never thought the show was less exciting when it slowed down. I enjoyed the slow, more serious parts. Like I said from the beginning, they were all screwed up but they will all learn a lesson in the end, and they did. I think all of the characters came out of this more mature, more wise about love, and with more knowledge of themselves. I thought it was great! Also, I know I've already raved enough about the OST, the high-production value, the cinematography, the directing, etc. so add all those thoughts. Plus, the fact that there have been very few dramas that have managed to get me drama-high ep after ep, week after week, like this one. That's why I gave it a 10.
Last episode! Thoughts:
I liked the ending. It made perfect sense and it made me feel relieved – for a while, I did suspect a different ending – and I agree with Panda-san that it was a happy ending. For a long time I did hope for Sota/Erena, but the way things turned out after Saeko became his lover, I realized it was impossible. If he had gone back to her after ending it with Saeko… well, it was too late, it would have been very strange. And of course Kaoruko never had a chance! So, it’s good that all of them (well, maybe except Saeko) can move on in a good way.
What Panda-san said:
1. I get your point, but I assume the doctor told her “you’re x weeks pregnant”, and she knew that x weeks ago, she hadn’t slept with Sota yet. But I agree that it’s hard to know sometimes how much time that passed from one scene to another! To me it felt like only a couple of weeks had passed, but I don’t know.
2. Yes, I agree about everything! I was happy to see Saeko end the relationship, to show that she knew that it wasn’t real love, BUT that’s no reason to go back to a violent husband. She probably felt that that was her only option because it’s too hard to be a single mom? I still think she should have become her own chocolatier instead, though. A few episodes ago she was upset with her mother who told her to accept her role as a married woman, and now… it’s like she says “okay, you were right!”, and that’s… just wrong, right!
3. Well, I felt the same way with another drama I watched recently: the woman was like 8 months pregnant and looked… well, not pregnant at all, and if that’s the way it usually is I understand why it’s frustrating. In this case I think it depends on how much time has passed, and it’s individual: for some women it shows very soon and for some not until the fourth or even fifth month. But I dislike this entire thing anyway, because like you say, what does her husband actually think about this? Even if it really is his child, I agree that he’d be suspicious because as far as he knows she could have been cheating on him since the very beginning. Sota sounded quite willing to accept this baby as his own; the husband doesn’t seem like the type who’d forgive a cheating wife so easily. Edit: Joe has a more optimistic take on it. Can we hope that they all became better people? Let's hope so!
4. Yes, everything was concluded fairly well, but I agree about Rikudo and Sekiya being throwaway characters. :( That was disappointing. Sekiya and Kaoruko never had any chemistry at all, I never believed in them as a couple (well, maybe in the very beginning when I still felt that all the characters had a lot of potential) and that’s why he could just as well not have been there. That’s how I’ve felt a long time: the supporting characters were underdeveloped and like Sumi says, even Olivier’s story became boring.
Anyway, there were many things I liked about this drama. I did like the theme of unrequited love+the creative process and how it changed when the dream came true; this was handled very well. But another problem for me, beside this thing with the husband and the supporting characters, is that I couldn’t really feel anything for Saeko.
Edit:
I liked the ending. It made perfect sense and it made me feel relieved – for a while, I did suspect a different ending – and I agree with Panda-san that it was a happy ending. For a long time I did hope for Sota/Erena, but the way things turned out after Saeko became his lover, I realized it was impossible. If he had gone back to her after ending it with Saeko… well, it was too late, it would have been very strange. And of course Kaoruko never had a chance! So, it’s good that all of them (well, maybe except Saeko) can move on in a good way.
What Panda-san said:
1. I get your point, but I assume the doctor told her “you’re x weeks pregnant”, and she knew that x weeks ago, she hadn’t slept with Sota yet. But I agree that it’s hard to know sometimes how much time that passed from one scene to another! To me it felt like only a couple of weeks had passed, but I don’t know.
2. Yes, I agree about everything! I was happy to see Saeko end the relationship, to show that she knew that it wasn’t real love, BUT that’s no reason to go back to a violent husband. She probably felt that that was her only option because it’s too hard to be a single mom? I still think she should have become her own chocolatier instead, though. A few episodes ago she was upset with her mother who told her to accept her role as a married woman, and now… it’s like she says “okay, you were right!”, and that’s… just wrong, right!
3. Well, I felt the same way with another drama I watched recently: the woman was like 8 months pregnant and looked… well, not pregnant at all, and if that’s the way it usually is I understand why it’s frustrating. In this case I think it depends on how much time has passed, and it’s individual: for some women it shows very soon and for some not until the fourth or even fifth month. But I dislike this entire thing anyway, because like you say, what does her husband actually think about this? Even if it really is his child, I agree that he’d be suspicious because as far as he knows she could have been cheating on him since the very beginning. Sota sounded quite willing to accept this baby as his own; the husband doesn’t seem like the type who’d forgive a cheating wife so easily. Edit: Joe has a more optimistic take on it. Can we hope that they all became better people? Let's hope so!
4. Yes, everything was concluded fairly well, but I agree about Rikudo and Sekiya being throwaway characters. :( That was disappointing. Sekiya and Kaoruko never had any chemistry at all, I never believed in them as a couple (well, maybe in the very beginning when I still felt that all the characters had a lot of potential) and that’s why he could just as well not have been there. That’s how I’ve felt a long time: the supporting characters were underdeveloped and like Sumi says, even Olivier’s story became boring.
Anyway, there were many things I liked about this drama. I did like the theme of unrequited love+the creative process and how it changed when the dream came true; this was handled very well. But another problem for me, beside this thing with the husband and the supporting characters, is that I couldn’t really feel anything for Saeko.
Edit:
SayItAintSoJoe wrote: Plus, the fact that there have been very few dramas that have managed to get me drama-high ep after ep, week after week, like this one. That's why I gave it a 10.That’s great! I wish I could have felt that way about it, but I just didn’t…
This is going to sound kind of odd but throughout the time this drama was airing it kind of felt like I was watching it with you guys who continuously commented on this thread. We may be in different states or different countries but it was nice sharing opinions over these few weeks lol. Let's do it again! Any particular drama any of you plan on definitely watching while airing this upcoming season? I know for sure I will be watching both Nino and Ohno's (Arashi) dramas. From what I can tell neither of them will have a romantic theme. Well, we'll see if and/when I make a thread lol.
And yeah, I know I was picky about the pregnancy thing, but I'm just picky about how its portrayed in dramas in general. :p
Panda-san wrote: This is going to sound kind of odd but throughout the time this drama was airing it kind of felt like I was watching it with you guys who continuously commented on this thread. We may be in different states or different countries but it was nice sharing opinions over these few weeks lol. Let's do it again! Any particular drama any of you plan on definitely watching while airing this upcoming season? I know for sure I will be watching both Nino and Ohno's (Arashi) dramas. From what I can tell neither of them will have a romantic theme. Well, we'll see if and/when I make a thread lol.
And yeah, I know I was picky about the pregnancy thing, but I'm just picky about how its portrayed in dramas in general. :p
Yeah, it's cool corresponding. I think I'd be down to do it again.
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