@CherryBunny If you read mine post you can see why I bring this issue with helpful/unhelpful button in. I know this is your bias and dont take it like attack.
@Hessa , I agee, this would be good solution for review issue.
@zeamays ... I agree with you. Now general rate is kinda confusing bc it is used for different coals and doesnt mirror clearly opinion about drama as whole.
To find solution.....maybe add temporary rates what are only on drama profile page and doesnt go anywhere else, I mean ranks?
Like rate of expectations ( before airing/watching) and indicator of enjpyment thru airing time. When drama ends and you mark it completed you get asked for final rate ...and this goes to all lists and ranks and shows up on drama rank page too.
It would add one nice moment when you can compare thous rates - what were people thinking-feeling before and during airing and what was their opinion after ending it - how much is outcome different and on what side, positive or negative.
exa. when you go to drama profile page you see that :
expectations rate - 9,0 ... (people who havent seen drama yet, rate open up when drama profile page is put up)
during watching rate - 7,5 ...(people who have watched but havent completed drama, rate opens up when drama starts air)
completed rate - 8,0 ...(people who have completed drama, rate opens up when drama has finished airing )
So, this drama had high expectations but during watching time some people got disappointed and/or put it on hold or dropped, people who completed drama still kinda liked it. And you can see number of people who rated.Btw. number of people changes when they go tru all steps of rateing.
In this way old dramas have in first rate less people and in two last ones more people but with airing dramas there should be 0 people in completed.
Still two first rates should satisfy members who like to see rate on even not airing or still airing drama page and use it like guide for picking up new drama.
On your list there shows up first expectation rate and if you mark down watching rate it replaces it and this one gets replaced by completed rate.
IF you dont start watching, Plan to, Current, Hold then in your list your expectation rate is final until you rate during watching or complete it.
IF you Drop or put on Hold or keep it in Current your watching rate is in your list final rate until you pick it up and complete it.
IF you complete your completed rate is in list final rate.
When you change status of drama you are given option rate drama in correlation of status automatically, no choosing.
But on ranks and top lists goes only completed rate. This doesnt keep away liars and fakers but cools bit down hypers. And thous who like use rate like tool for ordering list - can do it freely and dont mess up final rate with it. With endless dramas what have 100+ episodes this way is very helpful bc you can see watching rate AND see rate of thous who completed it with caunt of people and decide does it is worth of your time or not.
Outcome is more trustworthy final rate and ranks.
What to do with already aired or airing dramas? Keep rate like watching or final what goes to ranks? With still airing ones it is easy - it is clearly expextation or watching rate, depends from status in members lists. With already aired dramas/movies - if drama is on completed list it is final complete rate, watching rate if drama is in Current,Dropped, Hold list and expectation rate if drama is in Plan list.
This might or might not change rank and top lists but at least you can see opinion of members who completed drama and opinion of members who havent completed drama or havent seen drama at all separately.
..it is just very raw thought.
p.s. But I hope that episode rating is keeped. It is helpful feature and if one-two people rate episodes what havent aired yet - you can see it clearly and this doesnt go to any general rate or list. Kinda harmless. But if arent skilled in writing you can express your opinion with rate.
@Hessa , I agee, this would be good solution for review issue.
@zeamays ... I agree with you. Now general rate is kinda confusing bc it is used for different coals and doesnt mirror clearly opinion about drama as whole.
To find solution.....maybe add temporary rates what are only on drama profile page and doesnt go anywhere else, I mean ranks?
Like rate of expectations ( before airing/watching) and indicator of enjpyment thru airing time. When drama ends and you mark it completed you get asked for final rate ...and this goes to all lists and ranks and shows up on drama rank page too.
It would add one nice moment when you can compare thous rates - what were people thinking-feeling before and during airing and what was their opinion after ending it - how much is outcome different and on what side, positive or negative.
exa. when you go to drama profile page you see that :
expectations rate - 9,0 ... (people who havent seen drama yet, rate open up when drama profile page is put up)
during watching rate - 7,5 ...(people who have watched but havent completed drama, rate opens up when drama starts air)
completed rate - 8,0 ...(people who have completed drama, rate opens up when drama has finished airing )
So, this drama had high expectations but during watching time some people got disappointed and/or put it on hold or dropped, people who completed drama still kinda liked it. And you can see number of people who rated.Btw. number of people changes when they go tru all steps of rateing.
In this way old dramas have in first rate less people and in two last ones more people but with airing dramas there should be 0 people in completed.
Still two first rates should satisfy members who like to see rate on even not airing or still airing drama page and use it like guide for picking up new drama.
On your list there shows up first expectation rate and if you mark down watching rate it replaces it and this one gets replaced by completed rate.
IF you dont start watching, Plan to, Current, Hold then in your list your expectation rate is final until you rate during watching or complete it.
IF you Drop or put on Hold or keep it in Current your watching rate is in your list final rate until you pick it up and complete it.
IF you complete your completed rate is in list final rate.
When you change status of drama you are given option rate drama in correlation of status automatically, no choosing.
But on ranks and top lists goes only completed rate. This doesnt keep away liars and fakers but cools bit down hypers. And thous who like use rate like tool for ordering list - can do it freely and dont mess up final rate with it. With endless dramas what have 100+ episodes this way is very helpful bc you can see watching rate AND see rate of thous who completed it with caunt of people and decide does it is worth of your time or not.
Outcome is more trustworthy final rate and ranks.
What to do with already aired or airing dramas? Keep rate like watching or final what goes to ranks? With still airing ones it is easy - it is clearly expextation or watching rate, depends from status in members lists. With already aired dramas/movies - if drama is on completed list it is final complete rate, watching rate if drama is in Current,Dropped, Hold list and expectation rate if drama is in Plan list.
This might or might not change rank and top lists but at least you can see opinion of members who completed drama and opinion of members who havent completed drama or havent seen drama at all separately.
..it is just very raw thought.
p.s. But I hope that episode rating is keeped. It is helpful feature and if one-two people rate episodes what havent aired yet - you can see it clearly and this doesnt go to any general rate or list. Kinda harmless. But if arent skilled in writing you can express your opinion with rate.
@Skye-N-Rain, I can't find any information about it. I can only guess that it ended within a month. It really hard to find end date for Chinese dramas. The exception is only when you follow it when it airing, so you will know when it exactly ends, but that's not the case when you are adding older drama to the database.
@Raincat- As I posted before, I actually was thinking that kind of solution might work. However, I ultimately discarded it because, in the overall scheme of things, allowing the overall rating to be affected as the drama progresses is, statistically, an important feature. It really is helpful to those who are still are still deciding if they should try a drama or not. When trying to think of a compromise, the only thing I can think of is that the current system itself is already useful to both sides of the issue, allowing for the option to either rate or not as you see fit. Any change to this system would just remove an option for people, which would make MDL less user friendly for a group of people.
I feel like I have been repeating myself over and over, though. I and others have stated our arguments logically. Still, though, the opposing side has yet to offer a valid counter besides the 'Because your way is wrong' reason. Is there any *logical* reason that someone will bring forth, because I, and others, might be able to understand your stance more. Right now, I just don't. I can't see any reason how it would make MDL better.
I feel like I have been repeating myself over and over, though. I and others have stated our arguments logically. Still, though, the opposing side has yet to offer a valid counter besides the 'Because your way is wrong' reason. Is there any *logical* reason that someone will bring forth, because I, and others, might be able to understand your stance more. Right now, I just don't. I can't see any reason how it would make MDL better.
@CherryBunny i have ties with statistics many-many years, I own part of small company what processes data before analyze, mainly statistical and scientific research data.
So final (completed) overall rate and rate what constantly follows (not completed) progress are different things (I know how to explain it in mine native language but in eng it is bit...). MDL rate now tries to be both. Rate changes (number) but not base on what it is given.
On one person level it isnt big thing but in summary it makes big difference. You keep looking on one person level, try look in bigger picture.
Only way is to split rate into parts what it is used now.
expectations
current
final
This satisfies all sides of debate......but I think doesn't make Ji-N happy :P
So final (completed) overall rate and rate what constantly follows (not completed) progress are different things (I know how to explain it in mine native language but in eng it is bit...). MDL rate now tries to be both. Rate changes (number) but not base on what it is given.
On one person level it isnt big thing but in summary it makes big difference. You keep looking on one person level, try look in bigger picture.
Only way is to split rate into parts what it is used now.
expectations
current
final
This satisfies all sides of debate......but I think doesn't make Ji-N happy :P
Oh I see what you mean now. Still...let's think about this. Splitting them up really wouldn't change it, though, would it? If what I am getting from your suggestion is right, it would still be displaying a rating as it airs, which is what it is doing now. The current system allows for the current and final, as you said. NOW. Further thinking on this. After it airs, people will still pick it up and rate it, though it is not currently airing anymore. Therefore, with your suggestion, the drama's overall ratings will never change after a specified date of finale. That is just overly complicated and doesn't really make sense technically, though I see how it might on the surface. It is just super confusing and I don't think it would be that beneficial.
Nope, you still didnt read carefully bc what you post mirrors - you skipped big parts of mine post bc you talk about something what I havent written.
If its logic is hard to undersatand - try draw scheme about what i posted.
In general it uses partly same system what Hessa sugested with some aditions on rate section on drama page
---------------
It means on drama profile page there are 3 rates shown, on your list just one.....bc you alone cant do all 3 rates at once.
Current system doesnt show me what is rate of people who finished it or what is rate of people who currently are watching or rate of people who havent seen it yet - it displays only one rate what is summary of all rates aka doesnt mirror anything. It changes but doesnt have meaning. We dont measure temperature but rate drama.
Members doenst need to understand how it is done, they just rate system itself places rates into right place. So nothing is confusing or complicated, change for user is tiny, change for drama is huge.
-----------------------------------------
exa. I went on one drama page ( not airing anymore) drama rate: 8,3
From stat. tab: Completed + dropped 1500 members, rated 1859 members, it means 359 members rated BEFORE they completed or dropped this drama.
What this rate 8.3 stands for? Who knows... I dont.
If its logic is hard to undersatand - try draw scheme about what i posted.
In general it uses partly same system what Hessa sugested with some aditions on rate section on drama page
---------------
It means on drama profile page there are 3 rates shown, on your list just one.....bc you alone cant do all 3 rates at once.
Current system doesnt show me what is rate of people who finished it or what is rate of people who currently are watching or rate of people who havent seen it yet - it displays only one rate what is summary of all rates aka doesnt mirror anything. It changes but doesnt have meaning. We dont measure temperature but rate drama.
Members doenst need to understand how it is done, they just rate system itself places rates into right place. So nothing is confusing or complicated, change for user is tiny, change for drama is huge.
-----------------------------------------
exa. I went on one drama page ( not airing anymore) drama rate: 8,3
From stat. tab: Completed + dropped 1500 members, rated 1859 members, it means 359 members rated BEFORE they completed or dropped this drama.
What this rate 8.3 stands for? Who knows... I dont.
Ohhh ok I see now. I can understand how that works and I don't think it is enirely a bad idea, chingu. There are only two problems I am thinking about, though. 1. It would require a massive amount of work for admin
and
2. It would make it more complicated for people to see the overall drama rating. Like, what I mean is, right now, the one rating is there, easy and convienent to see. With your idea, there would be three seperate ratings, and I imagine that, in order for a user to see which rating they want, they would to click a button, navigating to a seperate page. That may seem not a big deal, but in fact it is. With that one minor click or, the simplicity and user friendliness has diminished. People like things easily accessible and right there. They do not want to click here and there all the time. Also, take into account the future app that will developed eventually for mobile. The same complicated system will have to be made for it, too.
I see that you are trying to think of a way, chingu and that is cool. I do see the logic in this idea, but I still think, compared to the current system in place, it is too complicated and time consuming. I think a lot of us also would think that three seperate rating systems for one drama is unnecessary.
When it comes down to it, I, and no one else on the same side of the debate, is wanting to change the way you and those on the other side are rating and why. What this debate means for us is being able to continue rating in our own way, for our own reasons. Everyone should be able to choose that and the current system allows for that. Limiting that in any way takes away an important aspect of MDL for people, chingu, and that is that is the ability to decide for oneself something. I truly find this particular debate surprisngly ridiculous because the essence is still, You Should Be Doing It My Way vs. Let Us All Do It the Way We Want. >_< I seriously want to bang my head against the wall out of frustdation that so many of you are seriously trying to force the rest of us to rate dramas how you think they should be rated. One side is predominantly only thinking and caring about how the feature only applies to them and one side is at least trying to think how it benefits others.
Anyway, sorry about the rant at the end there. I am extremely frustrated by this debate. I feel like I keep talking to a brick wall. (Not you personally, chingu. I know you are trying. I meant in discussing this topic in general.)
and
2. It would make it more complicated for people to see the overall drama rating. Like, what I mean is, right now, the one rating is there, easy and convienent to see. With your idea, there would be three seperate ratings, and I imagine that, in order for a user to see which rating they want, they would to click a button, navigating to a seperate page. That may seem not a big deal, but in fact it is. With that one minor click or, the simplicity and user friendliness has diminished. People like things easily accessible and right there. They do not want to click here and there all the time. Also, take into account the future app that will developed eventually for mobile. The same complicated system will have to be made for it, too.
I see that you are trying to think of a way, chingu and that is cool. I do see the logic in this idea, but I still think, compared to the current system in place, it is too complicated and time consuming. I think a lot of us also would think that three seperate rating systems for one drama is unnecessary.
When it comes down to it, I, and no one else on the same side of the debate, is wanting to change the way you and those on the other side are rating and why. What this debate means for us is being able to continue rating in our own way, for our own reasons. Everyone should be able to choose that and the current system allows for that. Limiting that in any way takes away an important aspect of MDL for people, chingu, and that is that is the ability to decide for oneself something. I truly find this particular debate surprisngly ridiculous because the essence is still, You Should Be Doing It My Way vs. Let Us All Do It the Way We Want. >_< I seriously want to bang my head against the wall out of frustdation that so many of you are seriously trying to force the rest of us to rate dramas how you think they should be rated. One side is predominantly only thinking and caring about how the feature only applies to them and one side is at least trying to think how it benefits others.
Anyway, sorry about the rant at the end there. I am extremely frustrated by this debate. I feel like I keep talking to a brick wall. (Not you personally, chingu. I know you are trying. I meant in discussing this topic in general.)
1. it doesnt require a massive amount of work from admin - we are in computer era :D :D
2. I hope MDL users can read...it isnt hard to just read words beside number, same text is shown on rate box what pops up if you start change status/rate.
And if they cant read.....then it cant be helped.
For user there isnt clicks to added - same old, same old but were thous clicks go is bit different.
Dont fear changes and new things chingu, every new thing is first bit awkward but very soon people get familiar with them. And with mine suggestion you can rate how you are used to.....so no need to be against it. There would be just two more numbers with explanation/ text on drama page - that all.
Just try to understand that rate now - doesnt mean anything serious - but it can be changed.
This is if MDL staff likes idea and has time for it.
2. I hope MDL users can read...it isnt hard to just read words beside number, same text is shown on rate box what pops up if you start change status/rate.
And if they cant read.....then it cant be helped.
For user there isnt clicks to added - same old, same old but were thous clicks go is bit different.
Dont fear changes and new things chingu, every new thing is first bit awkward but very soon people get familiar with them. And with mine suggestion you can rate how you are used to.....so no need to be against it. There would be just two more numbers with explanation/ text on drama page - that all.
Just try to understand that rate now - doesnt mean anything serious - but it can be changed.
This is if MDL staff likes idea and has time for it.
I'm on CherryBunny's side on this. Massive or not, that's still some work from admins for something which isn't necessary and not welcome by many people. Some other suggestions are less controversial. Plus, too much informations might end up being difficult to read. The strong point of this website is how easy it is to use.
@Raincat- I'm not against a change, as long as it benefits *everyone*, keeps things simple and easy to use and doesn't involve trying to influence and/or dictate how everyone should rate. So far, while you have put forth a logical suggestion, I am still unconvinced that it would be more beneficial to everyone as opposed to what MDL has now.
On one site about books I use, strictly forbidden to rate book before you read it. If admins suspect that you break the rule, they will ask you to write a review. I know that for drama, it's not the same as for book. I think if we have ability to see rating as
it is and rating for users who completed drama, it will be enough.
...you know, it occurs to me that this might be something that could be added to the stats tab. Has anyone suggested that already? Just add an average score to each category in the pie chart that you could see with all the other info that shows up when you hover over a category. Then no need to even change the appearance of the main drama page. No change in how users rate.
All the data is out there already. Hell, I might even consider rating dramas I dropped if that was implemented. I would feel better knowing that people could feel free to ignore my "incomplete" score, lol. The main score on the main page can continue to be a catch-all, and anyone who wants to know what only those people who completed the drama thought, it would be on the stats tab. Or currently watching, or dropped...whatever. And with that info, and if you're a nerd like me, you could calculate any combination thereof. :)
All the data is out there already. Hell, I might even consider rating dramas I dropped if that was implemented. I would feel better knowing that people could feel free to ignore my "incomplete" score, lol. The main score on the main page can continue to be a catch-all, and anyone who wants to know what only those people who completed the drama thought, it would be on the stats tab. Or currently watching, or dropped...whatever. And with that info, and if you're a nerd like me, you could calculate any combination thereof. :)
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