HeadInTheClouds:
Is this the video you guys were talking about? I can't embed Facebook video, but here's the link
I saw shorter video. less example. However, at that time I just thought it is due to DW's lack of detail attention. But now it's clearly to see that it is acting requirement for the cunning, manipulative Fox
I really like that Jin Xuan made decisions that allowed her to retain her dignity, instead of allowing her love to take away who she is. She certainly fits the bill of the strong, independent woman that Tong Hua advocates.liddi:
Unfortunately, within the novel, only a female tertiary character like Jin Xuan shows courage and grit. The rest of the female characters "settled" (Yes, even Xiao Yao) or were stripped of their dignity because of "love", for one reason or another.
Xing Xue turned into some woman scorned, all for a man that she knew did not love her. Ah Nian, who was in the best position to break away for a free life of her own ended up married to a man that she knew didn't love her. Spending the rest of her life essentially alone and lonely on that mountaintop. If you haven't read Tong Hua's other novels, you would think that she hates women.
H19279:
I saw shorter video. less example. However, at that time I just thought it is due to DW's lack of detail attention. But now it's clearly to see that it is acting requirement for the cunning, manipulative Fox
This is quite interesting. Considering the way that they are apparently pushing the YaoJing pairing as 1:1 if the leak script is true, why would they put in these details that are not exactly flattering to Jing?
Also, mentioned that there are passages in the book that supported this reading of Jing as cunning and manipulative. Could you post it when you have the chance, please?
Indeed, even after so many years (42 years)? together since their engagement, he still refused the treatment of his legs. That is the most visible "scar" on his body as well as his mind.
It seems that Jing was very insecured, lacked of self-confidence love matter. He was still afraid of losing XY any time. He wanted to keep his injury to remind XY that he was YSQ. He wanted her softheart constantly to support his posture. Because deep down in his heart, he knew XY's real love was not Jing.
I agree that Jing knew very well that XY's feelings for Xiang Liu exceeded her feelings for him. I think it's quite manipulative to use your injury as a pity card to tie someone to you. When Xiao Yao saves Jing, this creates a certain responsibility and investment for her with him; as long as he's not fully healed this investment and responsibility continues. Considering his vaunted intelligence and talent as a businessman, Jing probably knew this.
In the end of the book, the one who came to Jade Mountain, sabotaging the ceremony was YSQ. Jing was "dead".
Yup. Jing essentially killed every part of himself before the trauma. This isn't healing, this is avoiding. You'll never be the same person that you once were before such a traumatic experience, but you can heal and integrate your experiences, not completely erase everything that you once were.
He left his clan behind and accompanied XY to the sea. XL died, that means his scare of XY left him for XL was gone. What YSQ wanted most is to be by her side. He would accept the fact that XL would be unreplacable part in XY's heart.
I actually question if what Jing feels for Xiao Yao is love. It seems more like some sort of worship or idolization. She's an ideal to him, his floatation device to affirm his worthiness. Maybe it's love, but it really isn't a healthy one. It feels suffocating, IMO. But I guess it works for XY and her own trauma, at least for now.
And if XY stayed with him,
Will she though? I know that this is speculation, of course, but it doesn't seem coincidental that Tong Hua had XY being so drunk that they didn't consummate the marriage. The next day, Xiao Yao even asked if anything happened the night before. This seems deliberate on Tong Hua's part to drive home the point that they haven't. Not to mention, Miao Pu still called Xiao Yao, "Miss" instead of "Mrs" when they were leaving for the ocean. This would be long after the wedding. I don't think Tong Hua made a mistake with the title, so it's also deliberate. It's like Tong Hua is hinting that the door is open for Xiao Yao to walk out.
Also, mentioned that there are passages in the book that supported this reading of Jing as cunning and manipulative. Could you post it when you have the chance, please?
I don't like reading text of XY-TSJ so much. I can read the part XY-XL ten times but reading Jing was quite difficult task.
However, he is smart and had good analysis skill. He could recognize that XY's face was fake and someone wanted to hide her real face from birth. He also realized that CX was the one who ordered to spread the rumor about XY's biological father, and later CX helped TSH And as you once said about his acting in the part during conversation with Voodoo King deserved oscar for supporting role. The scene that he questioned Royal Mother was similar. or the scene during the wedding when FFB took XY away. The way he sent her 15 bottles of wine to remind her about the promise. The talk about the scars and how YY looked at him which aimed to XY's compassion.
Is this the video you guys were talking about? I can't embed Facebook video, but here's the link
and @H19279
This vid scenes are out of sequence right? I remember that in the drama, TSJ limping was getting more unnoticeable with time and when TSJ and XY were in Haoling after CX captured her, XY said that Haoling has a lot of special medicine that may cure his limp. So I take it that off screen XY did cure TSJ limp. I honestly never noticed if TSJ still limps or not after that. I didn‘t pay much attention to him, so I might be misremember ;) And yes every detail inconsistency I miht noticed I also chalk it up to DW not so detailed acting. Well if the opposite is true, they purposedly incorporate this detail in the drama, the prod crew was more thorough and De was a better actor than I thought =p
But the picture is taken from inside the room to the outside, outside shows Tsj walking towards the room where XY is,
From the outside it looked like Jing was walking fine/normal/not limping, but when he was about to enter the room and Xy saw, his walking changed to a limp.
I still clearly remember that video, and jingger wrote the caption: how sweet Jing is, he always tries to be Ye Siqi for xy.
At this point I honestly don‘t see any reason to engage with Jinger further. It‘s like our brains are functioning very different(our pov are just the opposite) and all the things that point us to how problematic TSJ is, are the things that they find admirable about him and we know what their opinion about XL?. Any discussion with them will only leave both parties feeling hurt and angry for having their beloved character assassinated/roasted without changing anything, so live and let live, I would say. TH wisely recognized this in her weibo post posted above. At the end everyone is entitled to their subjective interpretation of the drama and the novel. I keep having to remind myself that XL is only a fictional character everything I got worked up reading some mud slinging on him and praising TSJ to he heaven posts ‚sigh‘.
The really baseless and off novel‘s quotes like the one with ‚RM is the one who severed PLB connection‚ is another thing though, but I don‘t think they‘ll take any correction from YaoLiu kindly. Hopefully some more neutral Jinger there will correct this. I‘m a bit curious though, if their discussion there also filled with pro contra arguments or only confirm each other bias without any opposite opinion/arguments like we have here.
From @liddi leaked script
TSJ (VO): It is fortunate that Cang Xuan cares deeply for Xiao Yao. Should the day comes and the bug still could not be removed, Cang Xuan would surely spare Xiang Liu for Xiao Yao's sake.
Tushan Jing smiled in relief.
Is this another attempt to elevate TSJ, by showing him he cared for XL life? But just in scenes before he pushed XL to remove the PLB right. So isn‘t it again a bit contradictory because if PLB is gone then CX doesn‘t really have an incentive to spare XL life, so what‘s the point of him thinking to himself and feeling relieved that because of PLB XL‘s life might be spared, if he himself actively trying to pushed XL to remove PLB (not just once but at least two times, when we count his message to XL before as well. Is that message only to watn XL of CX or also asked him to removed PLB?) ?
@liddi an d@AH does the novel also tells how TSJ directly asking XL to remove PLB because I only remember that he and XY going to vodoo King to ask for advice regarding PLB from the novel‘s excerpts posted here. Does novel TSJ genuinely express concern about XL life or death?
Also, mentioned that there are passages in the book that supported this reading of Jing as cunning and manipulative. Could you post it when you have the chance, please?
For example this part when Jing helped Xiao Liu escape from CX.
"Shi Qi asked “How much do you not want to see the Grand Emperor?”
Xiao Liu thought “I would rather die than see him.”
Shi Qi put a fox shaped satchel in Xiao Liu’s hand “I can’t beat them but I can stall them. My winged ride is due Northeast. You run in that direction then raise the satchel and call like a fox. It will come pick you up.”
Xiao Liu grabbed Shi Qi’s hand “Will they kill you?”
“I am Tu Shan Jing, even if the Grand Emperor was here he would have to consider before killing me. Mere generals won’t even dare.”
Xiao Liu laughed “Then I’m going to abandon you and run.”
Shi Qi grabbed his shoulder with his voice slightly shaking “Let me see your true face.”
Xiao Liu smiled and shook his head “No.”
Shi Qi stared at Xiao Liu with unspeakable sorrow in his eyes. Once he walked out of here, Xiao Liu can become anyone else. Once Xiao Liu stopped being Xiao Liu, then Shi Qi would never be able to find him again.
Xiao Liu stared at him “Are you still willing to risk incurring the wrath of the Grand Emperor and help me escape?”
Shi Qi nodded.
......
Zhuan Xu’s angry thunderous voice reached him “Wen Xiao Liu, the person with you right now is Ye Shi Qi. I don’t have a problem with killing one Ye Shi Qi.”
Xiao Liu sighed – he really was able to be cold and heartless at the blink of an eye, thorough and unyielding. No wonder the Yellow Emperor liked Zhuan Xu." (Chapter 8)
You don't see it in the book. However in the drama, CX asked Jing who he was and he said he was YSQ. Please watch the part of CX 5 second before this. CX talked to him as Jing. And He himself said that he was YSQ
Is this another attempt to elevate TSJ, by showing him he cared for XL life? But just in scenes before he pushed XL to remove the PLB right. So isn‘t it again a bit contradictory because if PLB is gone then CX doesn‘t really have an incentive to spare XL life, so what‘s the point of him thinking to himself and feeling relieved that because of PLB XL‘s life might be spared, if he himself actively trying to pushed XL to remove PLB (not just once but at least two times, when we count his message to XL before as well. Is that message only to watn XL of CX or also asked him to removed PLB?) ?luv2bafangurl:
No. The way I see it, Jing feared for Xiao Yao's life, knowing that Xiang Liu would be facing off the Xuan Yuan army and could die in battle. If he died before the bug was removed, Xiao Yao would be in danger too (in the script, Xiang Liu did not tell him clearly that Xiao Yao would also die). As such, he wanted to find a way to remove the bug, but Xiang Liu told him it was impossible. Thus, when he thought that Cang Xuan would spare Xiang Liu in order not to endanger Xiao Yao's life, he felt relieved that Xiao Yao would be safe even if the bug failed to be removed by then.
@liddi an d@AH does the novel also tells how TSJ directly asking XL to remove PLB because I only remember that he and XY going to vodoo King to ask for advice regarding PLB from the novel‘s excerpts posted here. Does novel TSJ genuinely express concern about XL life or death?
Jing's primary concern was never Xiang Liu's well-being, only what his well-being meant for Xiao Yao. In the novel, we don't see the actual scene between Xiang Liu and him. It was only mentioned in passing by Xiang Liu to Xiao Yao at the gambling den when she asked him to remove the bug, and he said that Jing made him a very enticing offer an hour ago to do it, but he could not accept because he really could not remove the bug. (Vol 3 Ch5 - Chapter 38)
I saw shorter video. less example. However, at that time I just thought it is due to DW's lack of detail attention. But now it's clearly to see that it is acting requirement for the cunning, manipulative Fox
I can't remember whether the book includes such details of Jing reverting back to his pronounced limp in Xiao Yao's presence. Do you?
It does seem strange if it was a deliberate requirement. I always thought that it was something that was missed by the production crew. It would be helpful we actually had S1's script to refer to.
I can't remember whether the book includes such details of Jing reverting back to his pronounced limp in Xiao Yao's presence. Do you?
No, He still had limp problem until chapter 41 when they met White Emperor in Xuan Yuan. And he was assassinated in chapter 42. I don't thinking he could be recovered in XY's presence
Unfortunately, within the novel, only a female tertiary character like Jin Xuan shows courage and grit. The rest of the female characters "settled" (Yes, even Xiao Yao) or were stripped of their dignity because of "love", for one reason or another.
Xing Xue turned into some woman scorned, all for a man that she knew did not love her. Ah Nian, who was in the best position to break away for a free life of her own ended up married to a man that she knew didn't love her. Spending the rest of her life essentially alone and lonely on that mountaintop. If you haven't read Tong Hua's other novels, you would think that she hates women.
Excellent observation. I would argue that A Heng falls under that same category as Jin Xuan as well, at least based on what little I know of her without having properly read Once Promised.
You are right that A Nian could choose to be willful, but opted to settle for some measure of companionship with Cang Xuan. The one good thing that did come out of it was that she was strategically positioned to play that crucial role in saving Xiao Yao after her suicide attempt. And I would like to think that Cang Xuan had more affection for her compared to all his other wives.
Tong Hua is never particularly kind to her female protagonists. Who am I kidding? She is fair in doling out agony to both her male and female characters. But in the case of Xiao Yao, as Tong Hua said in her post back in 2013, the conclusion of the novel is not the end of the character's life story. Seeing how it ended, with her finally breaking free to claim the life she wanted at a place she could call home, perhaps that is when she reclaims her dignity at last.
No, He still had limp problem until chapter 41 when they met White Emperor in Xuan Yuan. And he was assassinated in chapter 42. I don't thinking he could be recovered in XY's presence
Thank you for confirming. In which case, I really am curious whether the drama missed that detail. Or was it to visually differentiate between the times when he assumed the persona of Tushan Jing vs Ye Shi Qi? Would S2 show him limping again at that last scene, when they depart after the wedding? I wonder.
And yes every detail inconsistency I miht noticed I also chalk it up to DW not so detailed acting. Well if the opposite is true, they purposedly incorporate this detail in the drama, the prod crew was more thorough and De was a better actor than I thought =p
I'm chuckling at the thought that because of DW's potential lack of attention to detail, he inadvertently added shades to the Jing character. I think those scenes are out of order, but it's the one where he walked into the room with WYL and FFYY that suggested a change in gait. But I think it's possible that it's just an inconsistency in acting.
At this point I honestly don‘t see any reason to engage with Jinger further. It‘s like our brains are functioning very different(our pov are just the opposite) and all the things that point us to how problematic TSJ is, are the things that they find admirable about him and we know what their opinion about XL?
I'm not in any kind of competition with people who like Jing and this isn't about them. I've always discussed Jing in relation to what is in the novel and I don't see why we shouldn't just because there are people who have different opinions to us. I don't do it on the main board because I don't want conflict, but I think here it is a safe space for us.
This thread is predominantly focused on XL/XY so I keep things about Jing to a minimum, but the ladies here are very knowledgeable about the novel so I want to see if there is in-text support or not for the hypothesis that Jing is deliberate in his manipulations - particularly with the matter of not solving his family issues. I don't like Jing, but I am a fair person and I want evidence before sentencing him :-). I ribbed on him often enough, but it's all in good fun because he's a fictional character in a fictional novel.
At the end everyone is entitled to their subjective interpretation of the drama and the novel. I keep having to remind myself that XL is only a fictional character everything I got worked up reading some mud slinging on him and praising TSJ to he heaven posts ‚sigh‘.
Of course, which is why I'm not going into Jing's thread correcting people who like him. I personally think it's a joy when you can get emotionally invested in a fictional world or character. And when you like something, you will feel a bang when other people shit-talk it. That's perfectly normal. The important thing is what you do with that feeling. And like I said, I have no interest in engaging in any tit-for-tat with people who like Jing and /or hate Xiang Liu. To each their own.
TSJ (VO): It is fortunate that Cang Xuan cares deeply for Xiao Yao. Should the day comes and the bug still could not be removed, Cang Xuan would surely spare Xiang Liu for Xiao Yao's sake.
Tushan Jing smiled in relief.
Is this another attempt to elevate TSJ, by showing him he cared for XL life? But just in scenes before he pushed XL to remove the PLB right. So isn‘t it again a bit contradictory because if PLB is gone then CX doesn‘t really have an incentive to spare XL life, so what‘s the point of him thinking to himself and feeling relieved that because of PLB XL‘s life might be spared, if he himself actively trying to pushed XL to remove PLB (not just once but at least two times, when we count his message to XL before as well. Is that message only to watn XL of CX or also asked him to removed PLB?) ?
I don't read this as Jing being concerned about XL's life so he feels relief that Cang Xuan was willing to spare Xiang Liu. I read it as he pushed for Xiang Liu to remove the Lovers Bugs, but he's not sure if Xiang Liu will actually do it. When Cang Xuan agree to spare Xiang Liu's life, he is relieved because that means Xiao Yao won't be killed along with Xiang Liu because of their Lovers Bugs connection.
if he himself actively trying to pushed XL to remove PLB (not just once but at least two times, when we count his message to XL before as well. Is that message only to watn XL of CX or also asked him to removed PLB?)
As @Liddi ready said, Jing only cared for XY's life which was tied with XL's life as long as the Lovers' bug connection between them still remained. So if the PLB was not lifted, when XL died because of the war, XY also died. However, he didn't know that XY didn't tell CX much about the bug connection between her and XL. CX didn't know that XY's life intertwined with XL's one.
The winter passed into summer and the seasons changed quickly, before anyone realized it 8 years had passed.
Whether it was the Voodoo King or Xiao Yao, no one had discovered the way to break the Lover’s Bug.
Xiao Yao was a tad disappointed but not worried since the bug was in her for the last 80 some years and she was used to it.
Jing was very worried and every time she failed to break the voodoo spell he couldn’t conceal his disappointment.
Xiao Yao giggled and assured him “Being heart connected isn’t all that intimate. At most Xiang Liu feels some of my pain whereas I feel nothing from him. This doesn’t count as having our hearts as one.”
Actually Jing wasn’t bothered by the hearts connected, he was worried about the life being linked. This worry was something he couldn’t discuss with Xiao Yao so he continued to let her assume he was bothered by their emotional ties.
.... Then the scene where XY met XL and discussed about breaking the PLB. XL said he had just met Jing for the same matter. His answer was the same: he could not. Then pointing out Jing was at her back.
Xiang Liu glanced at Xiao Yao and Jing’s joined hands before smiling at Jing “Farewell!” He turned and vanished into the darkness.
Jing said to Xiao Yao “I finished discussing matters with Xiang Liu and was about to part ways when I saw you were here so followed you while directing Miao Pu elsewhere.”
Xiao Yao didn’t want to discuss Xiang Liu anymore and shook Jing’s hand with a smile “I don’t mind. I know you’re worried about me. Let’s go, I haven’t had dinner yet!”
The two held hands and walked together and Xiao Yao said “Don’t worry about the voodoo bug. The boat rights itself at the end and it’ll be solved eventually.”
“Okay!” Jing said yes but he was still worried. The only comfort was how close Zhuan Xu was with Xiao Yao. When the day arrived, Jing hoped that Zhuan Xu would hold back the killing blow towards Xiang Liu for Xiao Yao’s sake. (Chapter 38 - 8 years after XY-Jing's engagement)
So in the scene when the royal mother said she broke the bugs. Did he really believe the RM did it herself? However, the most importance is the bug connection was broken. He was too happy because XY could survise regardless of XL's fate. A smart person as him could sense something illogical when RM suddently changed the topic when Ah Bi coughed and he understood clearly the characteristics of the bug that they always existed in pair. If XY's bug was broken? what would happen to XL's bug? Anyway, he did not care. He and perhaps also XY chose to believe RM as convinient excuse so that they can keep on living their way
The Royal Mother raised her hand up “You all want to be with me when I die but I don’t want you to see me die.”
Xiao Yao and Sir Bi could not contain their sadness as Xiao Yao said “I want to stay a few more days.”
“Whatever you want! I’m tired and you all…….” The Royal Mother was about to send them away when Sir Bi coughed slightly to remind her, so the Royal Mother suddenly changed topics “You guys know there is a voodoo bug in Xiao Yao’s body?’
Xiao Yao’s expression dimmed so Jing replied “We know.”
The Royal Mother said “When Xiao Yao was unconscious, I discovered the voodoo bug in her and broke the spell. You guys don’t have a problem with that, right?”
Jing was ecstatic and stuttered a bit “You mean, Your Highness got rid of the voodoo bug from Xiao Yao’s body?”
The Royal Mother coldly stared “Are you doubting me?”
Jing quickly said “No! No! I’m just too happy is all!” The Royal Mother was aloof and didn’t say much but whatever she said was always true, so if she said she broke the voodoo spell then clearly it was now broken.
For example this part when Jing helped Xiao Liu escape from CX.
Many, many thanks for that entire post-H19279. I knew you ladies would come through :-). To me, that scene/exchange suggested that Jing deliberately chose not to use his TuShan Jing identity because he didn't want WYL to escape. Because, like it said, he knew that once WYL was gone he probably would never be able to find Xiao Yao again.
For his personal gain (keeping XY within his reach AND away from Xiang Liu), he deliberately sold her out to CX, when he knew that she did not want to go back to Hao Ling. And then he quickly moved to get that 15-year promise from her in the Bone prison - further blocking her from developing things with Xiang Liu. Just thinking of all his talks of love after makes my skin crawl. That's nasty.
I'm ready to sentence him ....
of being a cunning, two-face, manipulative faker!
The question is, did Xiao Yao pick up on it??? Because if she did and still ended up with him, then man, she's a lot sicker than I thought.
Another thought. Was that why Cang Xuan never liked Jing? Not just because of jealousy, but because he knew what Jing did - selling Xiao Yao out - and is capable of???
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